Clio 200 vs Lotus Elise

[Lewis13]

Evening folks,

Hoping this is the correct area to post - apologies if not!

Just wondering, purely out of interest, if anyone can provide experiences of the comparison between the Clio 200 and a Lotus Elise. How does the acceleration, speed, handling and driver experience compare between the two? Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Lewis

 

[Dumdum]

Depends on the driver and confidence as two very different cars, for example my old gti-6 estate was on a beginners track day and I went round an Elise 111 and my Clio is faster than the pug, but if the driver was new to the Elise he may have been faster

From my perspective the 200 is the best handling car I’ve ever driven and I’ve driven allsorts inc e46 m3, Audi RS5 and lots of other fast stuff in my time, inc older hot hatchs, clio Williams 1 etc and I don’t think a lotus Elise would stick so well through the bends, especially in this country’s weather that’s my take on the Clio vs most cars handling wise... out and out speed the rs5 took it over the m3, the RS6 was even better but I never drove that myself, but Jesus that thing shifted!

 

[GazMav]

No comparison. Clio is a road car tweaked for the track, Elise is a track car tweaked for the road.

They are both awesome cars in their own rights.

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[Walker2686]

In terms of acceleration any Elise would be quicker than a standard ish 200, but it would also depend on the model and engine in the Elise as the supercharged ones would be much quicker for example.. so it depends which one you're looking at?

I can only compare from my own experience having owned an 8 year old S1 Elise in 2007 as a daily driver. Compared to my 200 now the acceleration of that felt quicker, it was only a 1.8 K-series but it was light, and a much more raw experience. The S1 is very raw compared to newer models and you're basically sitting in an a bare aluminium tub.

Handling wise it was great, but I'd say the handling of the 200 is one of the best I've experienced as well and definitely up there. I feel more confident in the 200 with it being FWD especially in the wet where I was wary of the rear end on the Elise. It's easier to drive the 200 fast, though I am biased towards FWD.

Incidentally I went from the Elise to a Clio 182 Trophy as I found it hard to live with everyday.. being 6'2" and not slender it was hard to get into with the roof on! At the time I found the Trophy dull and slow in comparison to the Elise, even though it handled beautifully.. wish I still had it!

The 200 feels plush compared to an Elise, but it is just as engaging to drive. My Elise was loud, it had a radio but it was pointless.. you couldn't hold a conversation at any decent speed and it was even worse when de-catted with a stainless system!

I don't think I'd have one again, maybe as a toy, but it wouldn't top my list and wouldn't displace the Clio.

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[Yiannis197]

Nice post @Walker2686

Echo the above, 2 massively different cars and lots of Elises out there. S1, S2 rover, s2 toyota, s2 toyota supercharged, s3 220, s3 220 cup, s3 250 cup and so on.

I've spent so much time around Lotus cars without actually owning one but I've driven quite a lot and I've been a passenger in almost any variance from OEM trim to heavily modified examples. I would not buy one for a daily full stop. It's not made for that for the reasons mentioned above.

The clio would be quicker on a b-road mainly because it's easier to drive and it's got tons of grip. An elise - especially the older examples with the very narrow front tyres - are understeery by nature unless of course it's wet and you don't respect the loud pedal. However please do not confuse this with 'handling' as definition. The steering and brake feeling, the compliance and also the car's behaviour when the grip is lost are far superior. Car generally feels alive at low speeds and this is a big thing. The mechanical sounds of the gear level coupled with the engine note coming literally from your back is a great feeling (when you are on it), car has a great image and it's generally cheap to run.

But that is not to say that all is rosy. Driving on the motorway requires either ear defenders or full ear headphones otherwise the road and engine noise will drive you nuts. Having one without aircon (mind you, aircon barely works on a Lotus) makes it impossible to drive on a rainy day, windscreen is getting steamed up in a sec and if you open the window you'll flood the car. A towel is a must on long journeys (ask me how I know). Purists love the older examples but personally they don't flow my boat. They are not quick enough and they need chassis tinkering to perform at their best. Now of course, the 250 CUP would be a different example altogether...and no, I'm not looking at 250 cups, or am I?

 

[Lewis13]

Cheers for replies, have enjoyed reading them.

 

[Big Ben]

On the few occasions I’ve been close to a Lotus Elise on track in my Clio there’s not been a massive difference between them either way.

Driver ability would be a huge factor.

Early model Elise’s get smoked up the straights by my megged Clio but the newer versions like what Yiannis mentioned have the edge.

Handling wise I’m on coilovers and I struggle to keep pace with any lotus on a dry day if I’m honest. Might be ability might be they’re just more nimble! As said that doesn’t mean the Clio isn’t very good

 

[Cossers]

Funnily enough I’m in the notion of an exige 350 or 380 at a stretch, I’ve toyed with keeping the Clio but tbh I’ll prob sell it next year as I hate having to many cars to look after, never been in an Elise though so sorry can compare to the 197 but the 350 makes it feel very slow indeed, very different car though!

 

[Yiannis197]

Funnily enough I’m in the notion of an exige 350 or 380 at a stretch, I’ve toyed with keeping the Clio but tbh I’ll prob sell it next year as I hate having to many cars to look after, never been in an Elise though so sorry can compare to the 197 but the 350 makes it feel very slow indeed, very different car though!

A bit off topic but what I don't like with the late V6s (350, 380, cup non cup, millions variants already) is the price as IMO these cars are simply NOT special enough to warrant the asking price. I mean...Lotus' most expensive car would be on the region of £50k up until yesterday. They now produce a 1100 Kg car (on its lightest trim that is) around a 25 year old chassis - albeit great one - without any considerable development but adding tons of bolt on parts (carbon this, carbon that) and they charge 6 figures. A used 380 cup is around £90k whilst a used V6 is on £35k. And it's basically the same car with carbon trim and fancier wheels and suspension. Yes it's super fast at the track but it comes with ALL the above mentioned compromises and substandard Lotus workmanship. Generally speaking, a V6 is 95% of the car the others are and costs much less.

Funnily enough I was looking at a 380 cup at Hexagon cars in East Finchley with 0 miles. It was parked outside and all the nuts and screws around the front grille and the radiator were rusty. Hilarious. People paying this price for Lotus quality and for a Toyota engine that lives in a Lexus SUV is beyond me...

 

[Cossers]

A bit off topic but what I don't like with the late V6s (350, 380, cup non cup, millions variants already) is the price as IMO these cars are simply NOT special enough to warrant the asking price. I mean...Lotus' most expensive car would be on the region of £50k up until yesterday. They now produce a 1100 Kg car (on its lightest trim that is) around a 25 year old chassis - albeit great one - without any considerable development but adding tons of bolt on parts (carbon this, carbon that) and they charge 6 figures. A used 380 cup is around £90k whilst a used V6 is on £35k. And it's basically the same car with carbon trim and fancier wheels and suspension. Yes it's super fast at the track but it comes with ALL the above mentioned compromises and substandard Lotus workmanship. Generally speaking, a V6 is 95% of the car the others are and costs much less.

Funnily enough I was looking at a 380 cup at Hexagon cars in East Finchley with 0 miles. It was parked outside and all the nuts and screws around the front grille and the radiator were rusty. Hilarious. People paying this price for Lotus quality and for a Toyota engine that lives in a Lexus SUV is beyond me...

Tbh I wouldn’t go for the cup version, a nice 380 with less than 10k can be had for less than 60k and a nice 350 for less than 50, special enough is subversive as what one finds special another one won’t! On looks alone it wins hands down for me, I’ve had a fair few cars and nothing turns heads like it, I personally love the grey with grey trim and yellow stiching, my c4s was better screwed together but wasn’t in any real way special, my tvr was mint but hardly a great example of how to build a car.

With the exception of a gt4 nothing else interests me and I don’t see the money on an 85k middle of the road spec gt4, I’d rather save 25k and have a 380, it won’t cost me a second thought buying one tbh and ///M seems to love his.

 

[Yiannis197]

Tbh I wouldn’t go for the cup version, a nice 380 with less than 10k can be had for less than 60k and a nice 350 for less than 50, special enough is subversive as what one finds special another one won’t! On looks alone it wins hands down for me, I’ve had a fair few cars and nothing turns heads like it, I personally love the grey with grey trim and yellow stiching, my c4s was better screwed together but wasn’t in any real way special, my tvr was mint but hardly a great example of how to build a car.

With the exception of a gt4 nothing else interests me and I don’t see the money on an 85k middle of the road spec gt4, I’d rather save 25k and have a 380, it won’t cost me a second thought buying one tbh and ///M seems to love his.

You are not wrong there mate but I might have not put it correctly on the above post. I love the V6 don't get me wrong, it's a beast. My mate had it and I drove it at the track (Silverstone) and road (Alps). No two ways about it, the car is awesome. What I was trying to say is that the normal V6 is so good that the other versions do not justify the premium. If the 350 didn't have the exposed linkage you wouldn't be able to tell between the cars on a run, yet it carries a £15k premium to a normal V6. Similarly a 380 carries a nearly £20k premium, is it really that better? In fact a friend just got a gorgeous gun metal (i think is the colour?) 380 and straight away took it to the Alps, take the fancy carbon out and there is nothing really there to see. Even the komotek 410 conversion can not really present any benefits on the road against an OEM V6, the latter is that good.

The only one that felt different was a V6 CUP, and that was because it was totally stripped out and had a loud exhaust but that again it was too much for most of the time. I do believe that Lotus with the first V6 nailed the car and the price.

Each to their own of course and anyone can spend their hard earned the way they want, but I can't for the life of me see any sense in the Lotus pricing - especially when there's barely been any development.

 

[TB Rich]

....it's basically the same car with carbon trim and fancier wheels and suspension. Yes it's super fast at the track but it comes with ALL the above mentioned compromises and substandard Lotus workmanship. Generally speaking, a V6 is 95% of the car the others are and costs much less....

Ah so I'm not the only one who thinks this, we all know you pay a premium for this sort of thing but I think Lotus have been beyond taking the piss with how they've been milking all these new and so called special editions. I love Lotus and really wish I'd have bought an Evora over wasting so much the last few years, but I'm not sure as a brand I could ever be tempted to buy a newish car from them now. K20 in an S2 is probably the pinnacle and at least your money is safe in that too!

 

[emu002]

I own both currently (a 111s series 1 elise and a ff clio200)
What would you like to know?
Its hard to compare them to each other as they are very different cars

Acceleration and throttle response: the Elise is more responsive as it is nearly half a tonne lighter
The sense of speed is greater in the Elise due to being so low to the ground. Speed isn't everything and I wouldn't call either car really fast but they are both really fun drivers cars

If you are over 6 foot you won't get in an elise without taking the roof off
The stereo is beyond useless in the elise but not exactly great in the clio either

Cornering: hard to say, both cars have very quick and precise steering, I used to say I would never buy another front wheel drive car until I drove the Clio which has changed my mind and is the best cornering front drive car i have ever driven, having said that it is still a compromise

Engine noise: both are quite similar although I do worry about the Rover engine in the elise breaking even though it has had the dreaded head gasket done

Build quality: neither car particularly good, I poly bushed the whole Elise chassis and it still rattles lol, British sports cars always have leaky roofs (its a design feature)

Overall driving fun: tough call, i can't decide, maybe on a hot sunny day with the roof off the elise edges it but in this country on most other days the Clio is the better bet

Depreciation and running costs: Elise a little more pricey to maintain but less than you might think as it uses a lot of old Rover and off the shelf parts and will only ever go up in value now

If you really want to scratch the Lotus itch I wouldn't hang around much longer as prices have been steadily rising the last few years

I keep thinking of selling the Elise but then come up blank on what I could replace it with?

 

[Cossers]

I’ll agree with the silly amount of limited editions but they are low volume sports car maker so it’s just their thing, I’m no expert on all the specs but pretty sure that the price difference is down to more than a few bits of carbon and a big wing, the price difference is another thing though but if people are willing to pay it then the car is worth it in their eyes. Yes they all look similar but then again so do most 911’s and they can vary by over 100k + and there isn’t the extra in product to justify what some will pay, just look at the sports classic, fancy paint job, ceramic brakes, origin price in 2010 @115k now @ 300k second hand!

I’d never pay it even I had it but I’ll not knock the guy that wants to, at the end of the day a car is only worth what someone wants to pay and the 100k exiges are selling! Does that automatically mean the guy is stupid because someone else can’t see the justification in the price tag?

 

[Yiannis197]

Does that automatically mean the guy is stupid because someone else can’t see the justification in the price tag?

Not at all, never really said that. I did state above that anyone spends their funds as they see fit. What I did say was that I can't personally see how anyone would spend £90k for a 380 cup with rusty bits.

The appreciation example is not really relevant here either, we are talking list price from the factory and how much sense it makes as a product. The fact we can't buy a Porsche GT3/4 it is also irrelevant, my reference was about Lotus pricing. Talking of which, the GT4 costed £65k when new, cheaper than a 350. That alone is simply ridiculous. A V6 on the other hand costs £50K which immediately makes the Lotus product much more appealing. A 430 CUP which is currently on pistonheads is priced for £111K, EXACTLY the same as a gen2 GT3. This is laughable of extreme proportions.

Yes people might buy it, good for them More depreciated cars in the market for poor people like me!

 

[Walker2686]

View attachment 128262

If you are over 6 foot you won't get in an elise without taking the roof off

So untrue! As my post above I'm 6'2" and my S1 was my daily.. I think I was probably around 17st then as well so not slender! I ran it with a hard top over winter. There's a knack to getting in and out for sure but it's definitely doable!!

Nice cars by the way


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[Cossers]

Not at all, never really said that. I did state above that anyone spends their funds as they see fit. What I did say was that I can't personally see how anyone would spend £90k for a 380 cup with rusty bits.

The appreciation example is not really relevant here either, we are talking list price from the factory and how much sense it makes as a product. The fact we can't buy a Porsche GT3/4 it is also irrelevant, my reference was about Lotus pricing. Talking of which, the GT4 costed £65k when new, cheaper than a 350. That alone is simply ridiculous. A V6 on the other hand costs £50K which immediately makes the Lotus product much more appealing. A 430 CUP which is currently on pistonheads is priced for £111K, EXACTLY the same as a gen2 GT3. This is laughable of extreme proportions.

Yes people might buy it, good for them More depreciated cars in the market for poor people like me!

Ehh...poverty spec brand new 350 is around 57k, proverty spec brand new gt4 was 65k and now 85k used, yes great value, you can have a year old 600 mile, 380 cup for 75k on pistonheads at the mo, go in waving cash and that will be closer to 70k, yes, you’d be nuts spending 90k on one.

Just as a matter of intrest, if you were to spend 50k on a car what would it be?

 

[Lewis13]

View attachment 128262

I own both currently (a 111s series 1 elise and a ff clio200)
What would you like to know?
Its hard to compare them to each other as they are very different cars

Acceleration and throttle response: the Elise is more responsive as it is nearly half a tonne lighter
The sense of speed is greater in the Elise due to being so low to the ground. Speed isn't everything and I wouldn't call either car really fast but they are both really fun drivers cars

If you are over 6 foot you won't get in an elise without taking the roof off
The stereo is beyond useless in the elise but not exactly great in the clio either

Cornering: hard to say, both cars have very quick and precise steering, I used to say I would never buy another front wheel drive car until I drove the Clio which has changed my mind and is the best cornering front drive car i have ever driven, having said that it is still a compromise

Engine noise: both are quite similar although I do worry about the Rover engine in the elise breaking even though it has had the dreaded head gasket done

Build quality: neither car particularly good, I poly bushed the whole Elise chassis and it still rattles lol, British sports cars always have leaky roofs (its a design feature)

Overall driving fun: tough call, i can't decide, maybe on a hot sunny day with the roof off the elise edges it but in this country on most other days the Clio is the better bet

Depreciation and running costs: Elise a little more pricey to maintain but less than you might think as it uses a lot of old Rover and off the shelf parts and will only ever go up in value now

If you really want to scratch the Lotus itch I wouldn't hang around much longer as prices have been steadily rising the last few years

I keep thinking of selling the Elise but then come up blank on what I could replace it with?

Thanks for the write up mate!!

 

[Yiannis197]

Ehh...poverty spec brand new 350 is around 57k, proverty spec brand new gt4 was 65k and now 85k used, yes great value, you can have a year old 600 mile, 380 cup for 75k on pistonheads at the mo, go in waving cash and that will be closer to 70k, yes, you’d be nuts spending 90k on one.

Just as a matter of intrest, if you were to spend 50k on a car what would it be?

For some reason you are still factoring in the appreciation factor of the Porsche product. My point is Lotus pricing and not what car is better for your money out there.

A mate sold his Gallardo and bought a 350 fully loaded back in 2017 (let's be frank, not many options to spec up back then) and he didn't get much back out of £70k. Specs were simply better brakes, colour, AC, radio, alcantara, ipod connectivity and some other small bits which all (and of much better quality) exist on an GT4 by default.

Another friend bought a used fully loaded V6 back in 2014 (nothing fancy as again, limited options back then, no carbon bits, no light wheels, no Li batteries etc) and the dealer also gave him the original invoice...£63K. I could upload if required.

Yes you can get a cheaper example slightly used etc but I'm comparing new with new. But since you mentioned poverty specs let's face it, a poverty spec Porsche is not like a poverty spec Lotus is it?

Not many performance cars interest me out there for the intended use and the ones that do are all appreciating assets therefore out of the question. Spending £50k on a car? I'd get a Lotus for sure but not a £50k Lotus. An Elise 220-250 cup depending how hard depreciation would hit them, keep it bang on OEM and keep the change or an Exige S2 260 cup and again, leave it OEM and save the cash A V6 with £35k would also be in the picture with some important mods on (like bigger tank for starters and soft roof conversion) but it's the weight - and all the negatives that come with it - that puts me off even though it's a crazy fast and capable car. Last but not least, the are still some S1 Exiges knocking about around the £35k mark...and I absolutely adore them.

I would certainly NOT spend more than £35k on a Lotus product though, it's just not worth it IMHO. But that just me so kind of irrelevant to anyone else

 

[Cossers]

Thanks for all that, you think they are too expensive, I don’t, sort of sums it up I guess