Clio 200 cup chassis vs coilovers?

[Yellow Clio]

Excuse my ignorance if this topic has been covered before, I have done searches and haven't been able to find the answer I was looking for?

I have a Clio 200 FF Cup and was thinking of upgrading the cup springs/dampers to a set of coilovers (B14's or AST's depending on how much spending approval I can get from the wife!!).
I was wondering if there is much of a benefit of upgrading to coilovers compared to the cup chassis? I do find the cup chassis fairly well damped so am only looking to spend the cash on coilovers if there is a significant improvement?
Car is used as a daily driver with fast road driving on country lanes as part of my daily commute. I do the occasional track-day, but not often enough for this to be the main consideration.
Any opinions based on experience would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks...

 

[Chris]

Not the same car but I changed to B14s and there is a huge difference. I'd do it again without hestitation. Corners flatter, more stable, better dampening, body roll disappears...

Doubt you will find anyone with much bad to say about B14s...

 

[Big Ben]

Cup shocks and an aftermarket spring are good enough for fast road/ocassional track day in my experience.

 

[wattson]

I think it could be useful if you can actually soften the suspension for daily use and stiffen for track.
I do quite a bit of driving for work and absolutely hate driving in town on pot holes and speed bumps. Driving around in London today I was actually thinking perhaps I should have got a non-cup and installed a coilover that would allow me to drive on soft setting day-to-day and stiffer when on track or odd fast weekends. But then I had a blast on the way back home and forgot all about it

 

[///M]

We were on Cup suspension. Changed to adjustable Bilstein coilovers. The difference is night and day and so worth it.

In my opinion, if you're going for coilovers, it really does make sense to have adjustable ones so you can wind them up and down depending on what you're doing. Ours can ride softer than the Cup set up all the way to stiff as a board. And the extra set up you have in how the car behaves makes a real difference.

More expensive, but definitely worth it if you can stretch to it.

Short answer. Yes. Very different and very noticeable.

 

[Yellow Clio]

Thanks for all the opinions...
I'm definitely leaning towards coilovers as I do believe there will be a big difference over the cup chassis, as some on here are suggesting.
I'd better get saving the £££'s...

 

[Chris]

Thanks for all the opinions...
I'm definitely leaning towards coilovers as I do believe there will be a big difference over the cup chassis, as some on here are suggesting.
I'd better get saving the £££'s...

You will thank us when you get them!

 

[Yellow Clio]

We were on Cup suspension. Changed to adjustable Bilstein coilovers. The difference is night and day and so worth it.

In my opinion, if you're going for coilovers, it really does make sense to have adjustable ones so you can wind them up and down depending on what you're doing. Ours can ride softer than the Cup set up all the way to stiff as a board. And the extra set up you have in how the car behaves makes a real difference.

More expensive, but definitely worth it if you can stretch to it.

Short answer. Yes. Very different and very noticeable.

Thanks Mes, I've just read through your build thread and found reference to Sean at Jade Developments for the adjustable B14's. I actually grew up in Barwell so should at least be able to find the place if I need to!!
I'll give him a buzz in the next couple of weeks so that I can understand the level of saving Ill need to do!!!
I think you've just made my decision for me..!

 

[///M]

Thanks Mes, I've just read through your build thread and found reference to Sean at Jade Developments for the adjustable B14's. I actually grew up in Barwell so should at least be able to find the place if I need to!!
I'll give him a buzz in the next couple of weeks so that I can understand the level of saving Ill need to do!!!
I think you've just made my decision for me..!

You're welcome mate. Sean's adjustable B14 are roughly double the price of regular ones but my GOD they're good. Plus Sean knows how to set up a car. You won't find a single bad word about his services. The man is a legend, you'll be in safe hands if you go there.

He can also supply / fit the standard ones if you want to go that route and his prices are fair. Can't recommend Jade enough!

Good luck fella.

 

[Matt Scarbro]

As an alternative I'm about the try the Koni Sport kit comprising Koni adjustable shocks and H&R springs.

For the vast majority I think the adjustable damping is a more valuable feature than the adjustable ride height of a coilover, I'm sure most don't corner weight their cars for fast road and ocassional track work.

Having had both both Bilstein monotubes and Koni sport twintubes on CRXs in the past, I preferred the Konis. It's quite possible this is reversed today since about 7 years have passed, but I was very impressed with the Konis considering the 'inferior' technology. If the valving is good enough to be used in KW v2s, they're probably good enough for me!

I will report back!

 

[Chris]

As an alternative I'm about the try the Koni Sport kit comprising Koni adjustable shocks and H&R springs.

For the vast majority I think the adjustable damping is a more valuable feature than the adjustable ride height of a coilover, I'm sure most don't corner weight their cars for fast road and ocassional track work.

Having had both both Bilstein monotubes and Koni sport twintubes on CRXs in the past, I preferred the Konis. It's quite possible this is reversed today since about 7 years have passed, but I was very impressed with the Konis considering the 'inferior' technology. If the valving is good enough to be used in KW v2s, they're probably good enough for me!

I will report back!

Let us know how you get on.

But in reality for fast road/occasional track you could argue that adjustable dampening is a bit of an overkill.

 

[Matt Scarbro]

Will do...

Much less so than adjustable ride height IMO, and certainly more beneficial on these cars, where I'm sure most would be grateful of the ability to soften things off for normal road use and our bumpier B roads.

 

[Yellow Clio]

As an alternative I'm about the try the Koni Sport kit comprising Koni adjustable shocks and H&R springs.

I will report back!

Thanks Matt, I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts on this option. I ran Koni adjustable shocks on an old race car and they worked well. Not an option I'd considered fir the Clio but I'm definitely interested to see what you think..

 

[mike harper]

Hi just finished a track day at donnington and thought the clio was fantastic on std cup dampers and h&r springs.

I was taking massive speed into corners, and surprised a lot of people (gt3) included

I absolutely loved the way the car moves around on the brakes and you can pivot the car massively by trail braking.

The balance is fantastic , but I want the turn in to be slightly sharper.

I think coilovers and a more aggressive geo would help with that, and if it moved slightly less that would be optimum but I don’t want it to be totally flat and not adjustable as it is now.

How would people describe handling after bilsteins?

Have people had adjustable camber bolts for camber adjustment or is there sufficient camber adjust with the bilsteins?

thanks!

 

[suj]

There's no camber adjustment bolts on 197/200s, the hub assembly is totally different from 172/182.

Your best bet to adjust from camber is via adjustable top mounts (there are ones that fit OEM dampers and Bilstein dampers).
Rear camber is adjusted via camber shims between rear axle and stub axle.
If you're more serious about trackdays then I would go Gaz Gold (or if pockets are deeper then AST).

Speak to Matt @ Supreme Motorsport (he is @R27WTF on here) if you decide to go Gaz or AST (as by time you got Bilsteins, then camber adjustable top mounts, you're not many miles away from Gaz prices).

There is also Yellowspeed coilovers being sold by a few companies (but Tegiwa are the official sellers IIRC), they offer good amount of adjustability (and spring rates if you request them), they have adjustable top mounts and are not that much more than Bilsteins (a friend used them on his 2.3 Cosworth 190e and they were amazing quality and it drove great).

 

[Beany]

The Clio as standard are capable track cars.. however one you go coilovers you’ll notice a big difference. H&R springs get abit of a marmite review.. also the benefit of Gaz and yellowspeed are adjustable and offer coilover rear unit whereas the Bilstein uses a separate dampener and spring set up like oem.

Echo Suraj, speak with Matt and he’ll offer his advice as he stocks most suspension options and he’s also provided afew us Gaz Golds on here

 

[suj]

The Clio as standard are capable track cars.. however one you go coilovers you’ll notice a big difference. H&R springs get abit of a marmite review.. also the benefit of Gaz and yellowspeed are adjustable and offer coilover rear unit whereas the Bilstein uses a separate dampener and spring set up like oem.

Echo Suraj, speak with Matt and he’ll offer his advice as he stocks most suspension options and he’s also provided afew us Gaz Golds on here

Agreed, only correction I think the Yellowspeed are separate spring and damper on rear Chris, but it's not a big problem having them separate many top end ones do (I had them on my E36 track car).

My personal opinion would be:
Mainly road + some track = Yellowspeed
Not much road + a good amount of track = Gaz Gold
Nearly all track (+ budget for it) = AST

 

[Beany]

Agreed, only correction I think the Yellowspeed are separate spring and damper on rear Chris, but it's not a big problem having them separate many top end ones do (I had them on my E36 track car).

I thought there were both adjustable coilover unit. Would seem odd having just the fronts adjustable..
I’m not saying it is an issue, but there’s more freedom with an adjustable set up.

Also with the Gaz you can specify the spring rates which is an additional bonus so can run a softer or firmer ride

 

[suj]

I thought there were both adjustable coilover unit. Would seem odd having just the fronts adjustable..
I’m not saying it is an issue, but there’s more freedom with an adjustable set up.

Also with the Gaz you can specify the spring rates which is an additional bonus so can run a softer or firmer ride

They are both adjustable, you set ride height from the spring platform, then you set the damper droop from the damper (adjustable like the front).
It works very similar to full rear coilover, just has an outboard spring, it just means you have to run different spring rates due to the lever of the spring being out outboard not on the damper (and it curves in an arc, so manufacturers need to work out the piercing point of the spring correctly).

Also good point about choosing your spring rates on Gaz Golds

 

[R5BTC]

Been running Yellowspeeds since Jan and I’ve been impressed. Can be turned down softer than standard Cup setup then turned up hard to for track use. I have Ultra Racing rarb so need the back is softer than the front or the rear is a handful on track, especially in the wet.