cams
- Thread starter Rye197
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Raptor6767
Gold Member
Hahaha...lool.If it was proven to make gains yeah of course, very interested. Especially as I could fit my ITG to it and you can't fit your v6 airbox because it's too bigLOL
Start a thread on it though mate, will be an interesting topic [emoji106]
Will do after it's made and dyno/road proven. Just collecting info on the interest.
For now, doing some simulations in Solidworks of the airflow and design of the trumpets
TB Rich
Paid Member
Nice, I watched some solidworks videos but looks bloody hard to design an inlet!
So you are going to include trumpets like the JMS, are you having the radius raised above the back plate or flush with it?
Taper design plenum I guess?
Is the filter going to come out quite straight, like on the JMS behind the head light?
So you are going to include trumpets like the JMS, are you having the radius raised above the back plate or flush with it?
Taper design plenum I guess?
Is the filter going to come out quite straight, like on the JMS behind the head light?
Raptor6767
Gold Member
All in good time - still playing with the designs.
It will have raised trumpets, and the taper design plenum of course.
Filter will be (unfortunately for the test manifold - will try to make some sort of a heat shield or an airbox if possible - but I'll deal with that later if there will be some gains in the start) coming out straight. I would like the filter to be inline with the front left grill so there will be fresh air coming to it (for now, it seems like there will be a need for relocating the coolant tank like you must with the Maxi Evo airbox).
And the runner length...don't get me even started.
IN THEORY, gains from this kind of an intake manifold SHOULD be the same/near the ITB setup at WOT.
It will have raised trumpets, and the taper design plenum of course.
Filter will be (unfortunately for the test manifold - will try to make some sort of a heat shield or an airbox if possible - but I'll deal with that later if there will be some gains in the start) coming out straight. I would like the filter to be inline with the front left grill so there will be fresh air coming to it (for now, it seems like there will be a need for relocating the coolant tank like you must with the Maxi Evo airbox).
And the runner length...don't get me even started.
IN THEORY, gains from this kind of an intake manifold SHOULD be the same/near the ITB setup at WOT.
Raptor6767
Gold Member
Oh...don't get me even started with a RAM air effect and the air resonance...the pulses (lengths of the runners, ° of the cams, opening/closing of the intake valves,...). To be honest - don't think I'll implement it all in this intake manifold because it will take TOO much time and trial&errors.
Raptor6767
Gold Member
I HOPE it will be on my car by the end of February. I depend on 2 other ppl (one a CNC operator and the other a carbon fibre expert).
If it makes more than 7-10bhp then my current setup and it is cost effective to "mass" produce it - I might offer it.
What would be a fair price for a carbon fiber intake manifold with the K&N filter that produces >10bhp compared to my current intake setup (V6 airbox, K&N panel filter)? JMS RS2 intake was selling for 1100£ if I remember correctly.
That COULD be ~10-15bhp more than stock intake.
P.S. and this intake will be designed to give as much bhp as it can in the higher revs (5500rpm->) so there might (I even expect it to be) a trade off in the midrange.
If it makes more than 7-10bhp then my current setup and it is cost effective to "mass" produce it - I might offer it.
What would be a fair price for a carbon fiber intake manifold with the K&N filter that produces >10bhp compared to my current intake setup (V6 airbox, K&N panel filter)? JMS RS2 intake was selling for 1100£ if I remember correctly.
That COULD be ~10-15bhp more than stock intake.
P.S. and this intake will be designed to give as much bhp as it can in the higher revs (5500rpm->) so there might (I even expect it to be) a trade off in the midrange.
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TB Rich
Paid Member
Cool, not long then.
Not sure how much, depends how much it costs to make is the first thing, then profit vs number of units you will sell etc.
In the UK for the Honda K20 we can get the RBC for £250, RRC for £450 and skunk2 for £470.
These are all full manifolds from flange on the head to flange for throttle body.
They are the only points of reference I have for how much a 4pot inlet manifold could cost.
Not sure how much, depends how much it costs to make is the first thing, then profit vs number of units you will sell etc.
In the UK for the Honda K20 we can get the RBC for £250, RRC for £450 and skunk2 for £470.
These are all full manifolds from flange on the head to flange for throttle body.
They are the only points of reference I have for how much a 4pot inlet manifold could cost.
Raptor6767
Gold Member
That's a bargain!
I don't expect on selling more than a handful of these.
And that's if it makes 10bhp more (I would absolutely LOVE that).
I don't expect on selling more than a handful of these.
And that's if it makes 10bhp more (I would absolutely LOVE that).
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TB Rich
Paid Member
That's a bargain!
I don't expect on selling more than a handful of these.
And that's if it makes 10bhp more (I would absolutely LOVE that).
Probably be lucky to get 10bhp, do we know if any work is done to the stock one on the Maxi Evo? If the inlet was a bad design I'm sure it would have been ditched on the Evo, so chances are you wont experiance much gain, like you say maybe you can tune for higher peek but at an expense everywhere else. If the area under the curve drops too much then you'll be aswell to stick with the OE and maybe find out if any manual work is performed on it for the Evo spec?
Be fun to see the results posted and what you come with
Raptor6767
Gold Member
That's exactly the way I'm thinking.
I already have ported & matched inlets on my Clio and the V6 airbox, catcams, remap...so if I gain 10bhp (+/-3bhp) that would be a nice gain.
Have somewhere dyno with the gains before and after the inlets. Will post them too.
I felt the better throttle response and got 2 lengths of a car (see how the power curve is flat @ high rpm and not falling).
That's why I'm a bit sceptic with the gains on this new intake because this stock ported and matched is already good (unfortunately ).
I already have ported & matched inlets on my Clio and the V6 airbox, catcams, remap...so if I gain 10bhp (+/-3bhp) that would be a nice gain.
Have somewhere dyno with the gains before and after the inlets. Will post them too.
I felt the better throttle response and got 2 lengths of a car (see how the power curve is flat @ high rpm and not falling).
That's why I'm a bit sceptic with the gains on this new intake because this stock ported and matched is already good (unfortunately
).
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TB Rich
Paid Member
I think you would be possibly better spending your money on the exhaust manifold if you want some more NA power. RS obvioulsy felt it was needed to get to 230bhp on the Maxi, let alone the Maxi Evo at 250bhp. Compare this with the fact they left the inlet manifold alone - or just ported it maybe(?) - even up to the full 250bhp Maxi Evo.
There is a guy on here who is running an engine with ITB's, pistons and Catcams 405's and Toyosport, made 224bhp. He is swapping to the R3 exhaust manifold - so that will hopefully show the benefit. However he maybe having head work though too, which if he does then obvioulsy it wont show the manifolds potential on it's own.
There is a guy on here who is running an engine with ITB's, pistons and Catcams 405's and Toyosport, made 224bhp. He is swapping to the R3 exhaust manifold - so that will hopefully show the benefit. However he maybe having head work though too, which if he does then obvioulsy it wont show the manifolds potential on it's own.
Raptor6767
Gold Member
My car is @ 217bhp now.
Exhaust manifold is like on the R3 230bhp:
Thought about the 250bhp exhaust manifold but way too much € for it and the gains are unknown (for now at least).
Too bad I'm not in the UK so I could try against that Clio given in mind that all the rollers are not the same and the way our cars deliver that power.
I've always tried to make the torque curve as flat/high as possible.
Exhaust manifold is like on the R3 230bhp:
Thought about the 250bhp exhaust manifold but way too much € for it and the gains are unknown (for now at least).
Too bad I'm not in the UK so I could try against that Clio given in mind that all the rollers are not the same and the way our cars deliver that power.
I've always tried to make the torque curve as flat/high as possible.
TB Rich
Paid Member
Not quite correct, your manifold is like the R3 Access and Cup Racer, BOTH the Maxi (230) and Maxi Evo (250) get the longer tubular manfiold.
| Standard | Cup Racer | R3 Access | R3 Maxi (230cv) | R3 Maxi Evo (250cv) | |
| Exhaust Manifold | 77 11 160 130 | 77 11 160 130 | 77 11 160 646 (Headers) 77 11 160 647 (Y Pipe) | 77 11 160 646 (Headers) 77 11 160 647 (Y Pipe) | |
| Exhaust System | 77 11 160 987 (System) 77 11 160 990 (Tail pipe) | 77 11 160 987 (System) 77 11 160 990 (Tail pipe) | 77 11 160 792 (System) 77 11 162 472 (Tail pipe) | 77 11 160 792 (System) 77 11 162 472 (Tail pipe) |
Raptor6767
Gold Member
Raptor6767
Gold Member
Oh...yes I remember now...it seems like this exhaust manifold could make a difference if it empties the cylinder so quickly. Too bad you didn't dyno test it before and after for the gains and the torque/power curve.
It was pretty expensive if I remember?
It was pretty expensive if I remember?
TB Rich
Paid Member
€1000 for just manifold, alot more cost to get it fitted properly on top because of things like sports cat and remap, plus the fitting requires the front joint to be altered when used on a road car. This is because the front needs to be able to move otherwise the manifold will crack. So you need a flexi or sprung flange needed...! I went sprung flange as it should be more reliable, details here.
It is great shame we never got to see the results from it Obvioulsy when it's next on the dyno it'll have alot of other changes so I wont be able to tell you what the manifold alone is worth. I did read on Simo's post that when he fitted it, they added 10% more fuel to the map from 4000-7500!!
It is great shame we never got to see the results from it
Obvioulsy when it's next on the dyno it'll have alot of other changes so I wont be able to tell you what the manifold alone is worth. I did read on Simo's post that when he fitted it, they added 10% more fuel to the map from 4000-7500!!
Raptor6767
Gold Member
What do you mean when you say that the front joint needs to be modified?
10% extra fuel that's a lot.
Is it possible to take measurements from your manifold so we could copy it?
Is the internal diameter of the manifold larger than stock?
10% extra fuel that's a lot.
Is it possible to take measurements from your manifold so we could copy it?
Is the internal diameter of the manifold larger than stock?
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