cams

Manifold is on the car now, and the car is 170miles from my house for the next 3 weeks too! So nope, no measurements sorry.

An R3 manifold has no flexi, not a problem on the R3 because the engine is solid mounted. But on a road car if you were to fit the manifold to the system then it would eventually crack because there would be no allowance for movement - the manifold is very thin alloy too (super light) so that would break and not the system.
I have fitted a vibratechnics lower mount, powerflex torque link upper bush so the movement is reduced but I don't want the manifold to risk cracking.

So, unless you fit R3 solid mounts, you have to make a provision for the system to move like OE. You could either fit a flexi or convert the front joint to a sprung flange system (like the clio 1x2).

manifold-2.jpg

That is why the joint needs modifying, because you need to weld a lip to the flange for the wire gasket/donut to sit over. I had to buy a new t304 flange and of course modify the 182 sports cat etc to fit. Which is why it's not a DIY job, a lot of skill and time went into fitting this by Tech 1. Links, info and more pictures on my site.
 
Ah...OK, i saw that before just didn't understand it this time in the context. :smiley:

You think this is enough movement for the manifold?

Would really like to get my hands on the measurements for that manifold. Or at least find out of the inner diameter is larger than stock because I'm planning on doing some headwork later in the year and porting exhaust canals (maybe even 1mm bigger exhaust valves/seats).
 
Raptor6767 said:
Ah...OK, i saw that before just didn't understand it this time in the context. :smiley:

You think this is enough movement for the manifold?

Would really like to get my hands on the measurements for that manifold. Or at least find out of the inner diameter is larger than stock because I'm planning on doing some headwork later in the year and porting exhaust canals (maybe even 1mm bigger exhaust valves/seats).
Click to expand...

Yes this will allow the system to flex against the manifold, it's the standard setup for Clio 1x2's (and many other cars). In fact I am using a genuine Renault fitting kit on that joint so along with my stiffer upper and lower torque links it'll be spot on.

Regards the exhaust, I have asked them to look at the exhaust ports on the head to see if they can be opened out. But you shouldn't flush the exhaust port with the manifold exactly anyway, you want the manifold ports to be bigger, the lip on the head creates an anti-reversal effect to prevent flow going back into the head. Sometimes you want a lip all the way around, sometimes you shape the port like a 'D' - this is why unless you spend good money on quality headwork with a proper tuner, you can easily do more harm than good.
I'll let you know what they find when they come to that part, will try to get them to measure the ports and weigh the manifold too.

The valves are pretty small on this engine, inlet's for example are only 33.5mm vs the Duratec and K20 which are both 35mm. Both of those engines are considered better and much easier to tune than the F4R. However even the Maxi Evo doesn't use bigger valves, so I reckon you may not need them - unless you have the money! The Maxi Evo does use a different head to the others.
I am fitting Supertech forged valves; the inlets are a single piece and have a narrower waist, so I will get some more flow over standard valves - not a lot but a little. Exhaust valves are iconel, not single piece exactly, however the weld is right up the stem away from the combustion chamber and not just above the head like OE. I would imagine the waist on these are better too.

I think you need to decide what bhp you want then look at the engine as a whole, you can then decide how you can best reach that target and with level of over engineering/reliability you want to build into it. I want about 230bhp, and built like a tank. Hence stuff like single piece valves, Arrow rods etc. They wont really do anything for power, but they will ensure it's reliable.
I think if you want more than 230bhp you can literally double the costs to do reliably. Because more than 230bhp really needs solid lifter cams because you'll be making power at or above 8k.
 
I don't think I'll be going over 230bhp with the amount of € that I'm willing to spend and I won't be revving it past 7800rpm too.

I'm planning to invest max 1500€ more into the car including the headwork, intake and remap and what gains I get - I get.

If that's not enough next investment (god knows when) - Megging the Clio, and selling this N/A engine with 220-230bhp. :smiley:
 
Same power and revs I am going for too :wink:

The research I conducted lead me down the following route for that power, and with what I hope considerable reliability too. Be interesting to see what you have gone for and what we both end up with!!


  • Catcam '403' cams
  • Catcam valve springs
  • Arrow steel rods
  • Supertech forged pistons 83mm (2013cc)
  • Supertech forged stainless inlet valves
  • Supertech Iconel exhaust valves
  • Aros R3 exhaust manifold
  • Miltek/HJS 200cpsi Cat
  • Supersprint racing centre section
  • Supersprint racing rear silencer
  • ARP rod bolts
  • ITG Maxogen airbox
  • Odyssey PC950 battery
  • Steel flywheel
  • *Inlet & exhaust - manifold/head porting TBC - once items off and inspected
 
My current setup:

Catcams 402
V6 Ph2 airbox, K&N panel filter
Matched/ported intake manifold
HDPE 3mm intake gasket
64mm TB
lightweight crank pulley
Y-pipe
Miltek decat
Miltek catback
Remap

Next in line
custom made intake manifold
headwork - porting, probably bigger intake (+1,5mm) and exhaust (+1mm) valves if I manage to get ones at a decent price, lowering of the head (to increase compression)
lightweight flywheel (3.5-4.4kg, depending on if I'm going to have one custom made or bought)
Remap
 
Nice, probably wont be much difference in power and will be very interesting to see how each delivers that power. I very nearly went for 402's but felt the extra compression from the pistons should compensate for the more aggressive 403's.

I had a big valve head on my old car, so I am a fan of BV heads, bloody expensive though!!
 
Raptor6767 said:
What do you mean when you say that the front joint needs to be modified?

10% extra fuel that's a lot.

Is it possible to take measurements from your manifold so we could copy it?

Is the internal diameter of the manifold larger than stock?
Click to expand...

Produce it [MENTION=58]Raptor6767[/MENTION] ... Maybe for a better price too...
 
Brilliant thread this, its giving me so much info as in good solid engine specs. I'll be starting to get a few bit and bobs in shortly.

Raptor, how you getting on with your lightweight flywheel, any further forward with it yet?
 
Not for now...concentrated on the intake manifold at the moment and looking for the appropriate material (light, tough and cheap as it could be) for the flywheel.

Don't know if you've missed this post



TB Rich said:
[MENTION=58]Raptor6767[/MENTION] Hi Raptor, just seen Madeno Racing do a 3.9kg steel fly for €408. Single piece with integral ring gear etc. Is that closer to the spec/price you're trying to achive? Thining it might save you the hassel of designing your own if all you want is less than 4kg?
Click to expand...

It's a decent price and spec too.
 
Raptor6767 said:
Not for now...concentrated on the intake manifold at the moment and looking for the appropriate material (light, tough and cheap as it could be) for the flywheel.

Don't know if you've missed this post







It's a decent price and spec too.
Click to expand...


Yeah, that looks good. I've also emailed TTv to see what they can do flywheel wise.

I was interested to read about your inlet manifold on this thread to see how it develops, do you have a thread on it?
 
For UK guys it's probably easier to buy the one from engine dynamics for £327 at 4.4kg. - Based on the weight I assume it's a TTV, I'll confirm this next time I speak to them.

Btw Madeno do some lighter ones too for €555 at 3kg and 2.5kg, but they are for 184mm and 140mm clutches respectively. So once you've bought those the costs will be mega for the extra savings.
 
rosscoe said:
Yeah, that looks good. I've also emailed TTv to see what they can do flywheel wise.

I was interested to read about your inlet manifold on this thread to see how it develops, do you have a thread on it?
Click to expand...

For now, Madeno's offer is the best, IMHO.

Will try to make a 3.5kg flywheel and in that price range.

I'll write it all when I make the inlet and (dyno/road) test it.
It's going slowly...making a mold for the carbon part of the inlet at the moment.
 
LOL...it's hard to coordinate with the 2 other colleagues that are involved in the inlet project because we're all doing it in our spare time. :smile:

I find the inlet most interesting too because that's something that can be (in my case at least) installed rather quickly.

The flywheel on the other hand...I need to pay for the labor.

Oh, and BTW - doing a custom made OCC too.
But this one is just for me because I had the AC removed and the hoses on the right (drivers side to you in GB) too so I'll place it there. Playing with the idea to have it tailored to suit the shape of that part of the engine bay instead of just going for the oval one. :wink:
 
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