C3RS200 Bilstein B14 vs CUP Pack stiffness

[deekay16v]

I know there are a few threads on this topic (I have read them all multiple times), but quite old. Now many more ppl run B14 on their Clios.

I am about to buy new suspension for my cuppacked C3RS200.

I am torn in between KONI yellow wirh HR springs and Bilstein B14 Coilovers.

Every single person advises me to buy B14. But on the other hand, everyone says that it is more comfortable setup than original RS200 Cup and that is what I am unsure about. I find CUP pack fun, on its tiptoes but not that much composed and slightly underdamped. Comfort is sufficent but what I dont like about it is bounciness and not riding FLAT.
I do not definatelly want something more wallowy.

I have dailied Mk1 focus with yellow KONI set to medium for 10+years without any problems (more than 120kKm before the rear one failed). Yes, it does tend to skip sometimes on rough roads, but you still had control. Better than wobbling side to side when your CoG changes.
On winter tires I did not have that problem much, since they were not that grippy, but now on GY Eagle Assy 5 i feel like CUP is soft when pushed and stiff when riding slow.

So ppl who have changed from CUP to B14. Does it really ride softer?

Basically this IS NOT suspension I am looking for (And this si how I feel in my cup - bouncy):

This IS what I am looking for (I know I know proper rallye suspension but you get the point), since I ride road like that mainly:

Any good advice for me?

Thank you!

 

[Maidens1979]

I’ve not got any experience with the Koni or b14’s but have recently fitted some yellow speed and I think they’re closer in terms of ride to your second video.

 

[burrellbloke]

I had B14s and preferred them to Cup suspension because the car was lower and more agile due to the geometry changes of being lower. I used B14s for 3 or 4 track days and found them to be a bit too bouncy on track. Going round Paddock Hill bend at Brands Hatch made me think that I needed something stiffer. It is a right hand turn that starts with a blind crest and goes downhill with quite a big change of elevation.

In my opinion I think that the B14s would be more like your second video but not wallowy. B14s are better suited to B roads and bumps. They have progressive springs so that they absorb the initial pressure and become stiffer as more pressure is applied.

 

[deekay16v]

I had B14s and preferred them to Cup suspension because the car was lower and more agile due to the geometry changes of being lower. I used B14s for 3 or 4 track days and found them to be a bit too bouncy on track. Going round Paddock Hill bend at Brands Hatch made me think that I needed something stiffer. It is a right hand turn that starts with a blind crest and goes downhill with quite a big change of elevation.

In my opinion I think that the B14s would be more like your second video but not wallowy. B14s are better suited to B roads and bumps. They have progressive springs so that they absorb the initial pressure and become stiffer as more pressure is applied.

Thanks... well the more info I get, the more I am afraid I will throw out my money for the suspension I will end up not liking lol If its not better to refresh cup dampers and slam it on HR springs If its good for NS, then its good for me ))

For the record, those are some roads I ride mainly:

 

[deekay16v]

I’ve not got any experience with the Koni or b14’s but have recently fitted some yellow speed and I think they’re closer in terms of ride to your second video.

No clunks or other problems?

 

[Maidens1979]

No clunks no problems at all.

 

[deekay16v]

And how do you find it dynamically? I guess you have road spring rates 7 and 4kg. That seems very soft at the rear compared to anything other. Isn't it numb at turn in?

 

[Maidens1979]

Yeah I have the road springs, I also have it setup as close as possible to the cup settings (height, camber) they have a good range of damper settings for stiffness, and to me it feels like a step up from how it felt on the cup suspension.

 

[deekay16v]

I see. I need to set it up a bit higher and with less camber (say tarmac rallye setup).

 

[Maidens1979]

It’s interesting that you mentioned the rear spring rate being 4kg, I just went for the road ones as that’s what I drive the most. But from driving the car it runs nice and flat and the rear feels just as stiff as what the cup springs did.
But, I’ve not had it on a track since I had them fitted.

 

[deekay16v]

Because CUP rears are 4.5kg so really nearly the same But CUP fronts are only 4kg, compared to 7kg of yellowspeeds. I think B14 supposed to be 6kg front and rear, but progressive.

 

[deekay16v]

Well just dug up some info today:

Looks like progressive springs on B14 are wound the way, softer part acts just like helper spring and car rides always on the harder part in normal conditions. Interesting. Wonder if this is true on the clio kit as well, but I guess it will be the same.

 

[Dannycowley]

B14s will be better than HR springs in every way, HR are crashy as anything. B14 can bounce a bit at big speed over bumps but great for the money and don’t believe the ‘better ride than cups’, they aren’t. If you don’t want to go coilovers then cup shocks with Eibach springs are absolutely brilliant for the road

 

[deekay16v]

Could you please explain to non-native english speaker (me), what exactly means "crashy"?
Because to be clear: I have had Koni yellows on my Mk1 Focus for 10years (was my daily too). They were set up very stiff. When you hit speedbumps at lowers speed you felt it pretty hard. (Harder than my clio on standard CUP suspension). But the car was planted, controllable etc. It does skip a bit in turns on very rough roads but again, it was controllable manner. I can jump it and it plants itself to the ground after the landing, like a cat
To me standard CUP feels quite soft tbh .) Especially since i run spacers, so more leverage. I feel that rear dampers might not be in its top condition, so maybe just refurbish them and see.

Btw I have found quite significant number of complaints on extremely low longevity of front bushings of B14. Across different car brands. I really do not want to dissassemble it every year and change bushings.

 

[Dannycowley]

Crashy means very harsh ride I guess, they’re too low in my opinion and don’t have enough range of movement to effectively absorb bumps. If you’re going springs only then Eibach are easily the best option for the road

 

[Robjones888]

Had b14’s on for about 1000miles and very impressed with the ride quality, but no matter what you fit it’s very important I think to get them dialed in , 4 wheel alignment and geo set up ie ride height camber caster depending on top mounts etc by someone who knows what they’re doing and who listens to what you want ie more fast road set up than track or the other way round. Bilstein build quality seems great so far and to be fair they spend hundreds of hours on r and d so you know your getting something that works and a quality item but only if it’s set up properly.

 

[duck.co.za]

I am in exactly the same position as you. I bought my car with new cup shocks and H&R springs (very low) Stance and look is great. Ride terrible!!
If you push it hard it bounces. The cup shock is under rebound dampened for the H&R spring and can't control the rebound once the spring has been compressed and you pogo stickTaround the corner (this is what I think anyway). I previously had a 20th on stock shocks and springs, and it was way better. So, I found a set of cup spring and am busy fitting them (ride height will be too high ) but lets see if it handles better .
I am seriously considering B14 as then the ride height is adjustable ( I don't want it slammed , but just dropped a little )

 

[Robjones888]

Mine on b14’s set up by tuned uk in Wrexham 17 x 8 2 forge wheels 225/45/17 ad08rs , rides lovely no bouncing

 

[deekay16v]

duck.co.za:
Well I begin to consider something like gaz golds with custom springs... just because you can alter settings which on B14 you cannot.
Btw to be honest I find even the stock cup suspension unterdampened on rebound. Yes, you have lively feel but...The problem is I feel even the stock cup setup is too wallowy under hard riding and too soft front.

Robjones888: Looks really nice. That is about the ride height I am about.

 

[Robjones888]

However if you are doing a few track days then Gaz , bc, (apparently now do for 197/200) or yellowspeed in that 800-1100 quid bracket ,,,,, might be worth going for hmmmmm my b14’s might be for sale soon as possibly a little soft for track use