200 a better car???

[litchy]

Why is it the general consenus is the 200 is a much, much better car than its predecessor?

 

[JPC]

I'm not saying it is better because I haven't driven both enough, but another member said yesterday it's further down the line of evolution so should be better. Sounds reasonable right? What do you drive?

 

[Ed...]

They arebt better just different technology. Like how can feel a steering racks 5% quicker? Load of lies. The 197 didn't get a chance to shine pit a 197 against a 200 on a track......... No different

 

[BenW]

Evo claimed the 200 was 2.2 seconds quicker round a track than the 197. But they were saying it could take a couple of corners 10mph quicker and I can't honestly believe that, must be different drivers.

The 200 is a better car, no doubt but it's only had minor changes so it's not a night and day difference

 

[Mike Roberts]

You're never going to get a decent answer on this on a 197/200 owners forum from either camp, as people get emotionally attached to their cars and it clouds their ability to be objective.

You need to think of it differently, the 200 isn't a different car, it is fundamentally a 197 and the latest evolution is exactly the same as when they went back to the drawing board and made the Cup chassis for the 197 to improve that. Does anyone disagree that the 197 F1/Cup is a better car than the 197?

I thought the EVO review was well written and fair, prehaps someone should email them on eds@evo.co.uk and tell them why they're wrong? Or, ask them any other question about the artical. Post their reply here, I'd be interested to read it.

 

[rich_y2]

Having owned both (R27 and now a 200) I agree with the 'evolution' comment, not massively different but certainly different enough to know things have been tweaked and updated. Is it going to be significantly quicker on a track, doubt you'll notice anything tbh however where it does show its 'evolution' is in everyday driving - both doing the boring town and work runs as well as on spirited drives. The quicker steering whilst not obviously different does actually come into play when you are on those flowing A and B roads, again it's not going to get you around the corner any quicker but it just gives you that little bit more flow and satisfaction (no lies here, it simply contributes to a more flowing drive, can't think of how better to explain it sorry), makes the driving experience a tad better imho. Same goes for the engine and the tweaked low down torque and different gearing, the torque certainly helps on the day to day driving and makes for an easier drive but on a lap of a track it wouldn't come into play. The chassis tweaks are also noticeable, whilst the 200 with Cup chassis (only had Cup versions as the R27 did too, obviously) is firmer the damping is also more controlled, less crash and wallop over the rough stuff - perhaps the most gains here for track work (although not gonna break any track records) as it maybe rolls a tad less and does allow a novice to get more from the car (perhaps?).

I think most of the enhancements and tweaks are mainly around the inputs that the driver gets rather than raw pace, it just feels a tad more complete - but I don't mean that the 197 is bad in any way, I really liked the R27 but it's simply a natural evlolution over time where a little more R&D has gone into certain areas.

 

[Ed...]

10mph difference I've heard it all now lol. I wouldn't say I was emotionally attached to my car. I believe it to be the best car of its class and I hear more 200 owners having problems than 197 owners. Cup chassis i know from track experience laps quicker than normal but from driving both standard 200 and 197 on test drives they feel no different. As I've said in other threads the gearing is main difference. I've gota say it ....... They are the same car with different aditions I could speed up turn in times and handling with a camber-toe adjustments I'd love to see a fresh outa the factory 200 pitted against a fresh outa the factory 197. I go by same reasons as 172 and 182 they put an exhaust system and the additional option of a cup pack and low and behold they sold more cars......

 

[Mike Roberts]

Data trace: same driver, same conditions.

 

[Mike Roberts]

BTW - I'm not trying to fuel an argument here, my opinion is worthless as it is biased. I'm just posting what the press think to add to the discussion, as getting owners to tell you which is best is as bad as getting 2 rival football fans to tell you who has the best team.

EDIT: Found the 'rack is 7.5% quicker. Considering people get a remap which gives a 4-5% improvement and they'll tell you the car is night and day different, it isn't too hard to believe it makes a difference??

Also, does the 197 Cup have the independant steering axis off the Megane?? Could account for the higher apex speed if it has completely different underpinning??

 

[Foxspeed]

driven both - mine 197ff and a 200+cup

could tell the difference straight away....

pulls better at the bottom end and pulled well right through the rev range
steering was slightly quicker and the chassis (cup) was brilliant didnt think it was to hard

be nice to have 200 cup chassis on a 197 :bat:

 

[Ed...]

No no I know ure not mike we are all biased and I enjoy heated discussions lol. Lots of things like driver mentality can change telemetry. Maybe the driver pushed the 200 more cus he was told about the changes things like that if you know what I meen. Tbh I wasnt happy with cornering on standard 197 anyway that's y I went for v3's

 

[Mike Roberts]

Yep, I agree, more confidence in something can make you give another few %. More so for Joe Public than a pro driver maybe?

There'll be the same threads when the next version comes out too, I'll be mighty p***ed off if they do an R26.R style one!!

 

[R32pete]

ooo a clio RS.R sounds sexual!

Well statistically the clio 200 is better than a 197 and lap times confirm this, and black 197's cant really coment as they loose 190 bhp due to the extra paint required to make them so black.

200 + cup chasis FTMFW!

Pete

 

[cliophil]

having owned both I can say the 200 is better. When you think of all the small changes that have been made on their own might not make much difference, but all together it is definitely a step forward if you ask me.

Quicker Steering rack
Stiffer shocks
softer dampers
More mid range torque
more power
Lower emssions
shorter 1st and 2nd for better acceleration
longer 5th and 6th for quieter long journeys, more top end speed and increased mpg

There are also more colour combination options to choose from as well so less chance of seeing exactly the same car driving down the road next to you... Unless you have a GW 200

An extra 10mph round a corner I think is a bit far fetched, but I would imagine that the 200 would slightly be quicker (standard cars) than the 197.

 

[Pinkorstink]

Never driven a 200 but I believe the 200 is a step up in many ways. We have to believe this otherwise we have no argument when the 182 owners say theirs are better than ours.

 

[litchy]

I guess thats evolution. Technology influences that. Better is always subjective and individual anyway. I would hope it is better as it pushes the envelope even further. Thats what we all want otherwise we would still be driving round Renault 5 turbos!!!!!

I reserve judgement till I put my F1 back together again!!!!!

 

[StevoR27]

I have owned both, along with three other Clio RS previously so my opinion is unbiased. I had an R27, did 36k miles and it took one test drive in a 200 to convince me to buy one.

The 200 is a lot better. Why? There are lots of small advantages that the 200 has over the 197. The 197 is a great car, but it is flawed. The 200 puts 98% of those issues to right and collectively those fixes make it a sensational drive, straight out of the box.

Quicker rack makes the feedback much nicer and more involving
20lb extra torque across the rev range
More power
Higher top speed
Lower emissions
Better economy
Stiffer shocks for tighter cornering
Softer more advanced damping for better traction and comfort
Wider track for tighter cornering and less understeer (also looks better)
Shorter 1st and 2nd ratios for better acceleration
Longer 5th and 6th for quieter long journeys
More top end speed due to improved power and ratios
Tighter build quality inside
Better fabric which is more durable on the recaro seats
Better exhaust note

The steering rack on the Cup chassis alone makes the car so much better, it feels like you're connect to it. There's less body roll and the engine is more responsive with a deeper grunt. Just like Top Gear described.

Personally as an owner of both it's like night and day, but that doesn't mean the 197 isn't a fantastic car aswell.

IMO for what it is the 200 is very close to perfection.

 

[Ed...]

Night n day in looks lol I'd rather see the 200 in the dark lol

 

[richandgem]

people say the 200 is better coz it is. We have an R27 and when I tested a 200 FF with cup chassis and I could tell there was a definate improvement. I wouldn't say that it was massively different, but most things were a little bit better, pulled better, the front end doesnt dip as much, turns in a bit better, just lots of little things that made it better.

I'd hardly say the 197 id flawed though Stevo

From an engineering point of view the 200 is a superior vehicle, its just not a big enough improvement for us to want to chop the R27 in for one, plus in our opinion the front looks poo lol

 

[Matt197]

Good points by everyone, not had a chance to drive a 200 but its obvious that the 200 is going to be a bit better, they have had what 3-4 years to tweak on the 197 and solve any problems.

I do not see the 200 as a upgrade from the 197, more of a sidestep, yes it’s a improvement on the 197 but IMO not sufficient to warrant changing.

Just wait for the new RenaultSport Clio to be released, if they can get another 20bhp out of the 2L lump then that's something worth upgrading to.