RS 200 20th anniversary edition engine rebuild

[duck.co.za]

So I bought what turned out to be a pretty clean RS 200 . The engine was out of the car when I bought it and I thought I might as well start a thread on the rebuild . On assessing the parts it would seem that the motor ran bearings and the bores are on the max limit of their tolerance . I am busy trying to find a better block . I looked at two today , but they were both worse than the block I have .
One was a turbo Meg block the other a Scienic . Am I correct in saying that if I blank off the turbo oil feed and return I could use a Meg block ? I have started cleaning and Vaquablasting some of the engine parts plus the engine bay is getting a good clean .

 

[duck.co.za]

Got super lucky this weekend . I found a forged bottom end and 402 cams . Motor has only done about 2000 km since rebuild and has the parts I need , as my head is brand new . Its got Wossner pistons and std rods with ARP bolts . Apparently if I use the Megane Turbo thick head gasket I can get the C/R down to about 11,7:1 . Not ideal from a squish point of view , but I don't really want to run much higher than that on our fuel . Now the question is do I stick with the std cams or fit the 402's ? Is it worth pulling the crank and having it balanced ?

 

[duck.co.za]

Motor arrived today . All looks good , give it a clean tomorrow and I can start putting it all back together .

 

[Pav]

 

[bedoef]

Now the question is do I stick with the std cams or fit the 402's ? Is it worth pulling the crank and having it balanced ?

Do you need to do crank balancing to run the 402? Or is that with your forged motor only?

 

[Dumdum]

Do you need to do crank balancing to run the 402? Or is that with your forged motor only?

Crank balancing just helps with the engine revving a touch smoother, it won’t make any difference to the cams he runs

same as lightening and balancing the flywheel and clutch basket assembly also

 

[Northloopcup]

Got super lucky this weekend . I found a forged bottom end and 402 cams . Motor has only done about 2000 km since rebuild and has the parts I need , as my head is brand new . Its got Wossner pistons and std rods with ARP bolts . Apparently if I use the Megane Turbo thick head gasket I can get the C/R down to about 11,7:1 . Not ideal from a squish point of view , but I don't really want to run much higher than that on our fuel . Now the question is do I stick with the std cams or fit the 402's ? Is it worth pulling the crank and having it balanced ?

View attachment 125402 View attachment 125403 View attachment 125404

Rather than running a thicker head gasket, why not have the piston tops given a slight skim to reduce the deck height? That way you will maintain decent squish as well.

 

[duck.co.za]

Rather than running a thicker head gasket, why not have the piston tops given a slight skim to reduce the deck height? That way you will maintain decent squish as well.

Was thinking exactly that , but I'm loathed to pull the pistons as then I should really re ring them and the rings would need to come from your side of the globe . In theory I could put the whole block on the mill , lock the motor at TDC and machine two pistons , turn it 180 deg and mill the other two . My other problem is the guy who has balanced all my previous motors doesn't do it for customers any more . So I'm thinking I am going assemble this motor as it is . I can rebuild my blown motor over time doing all the extra little touches and then just swap them .
Maybe in time I find a crash Meg and Meglio it . Only problem is , it is a very neat example .

 

[duck.co.za]

From what I have read the 402's are only a little bit more duration and lift than the std cams . So with dropping the C/R below 12:1 and the 402 cams I am reasonably confident that the dynamic C/R will be ok . I have read about putting a vernier gear on the exhaust cam to retard the timing ( ? ) Anyone on here done this ? I don't know much about the dephaser and the constantly variable inlet timing . Are there any specs as to where the cam timing starts and over what range it moves ?
On my 308 I made vernier gears and closed the lobe center angle up a degree or two and it made a huge deference in the torque the motor made .

 

[Northloopcup]

From what I have read the 402's are only a little bit more duration and lift than the std cams . So with dropping the C/R below 12:1 and the 402 cams I am reasonably confident that the dynamic C/R will be ok . I have read about putting a vernier gear on the exhaust cam to retard the timing ( ? ) Anyone on here done this ? I don't know much about the dephaser and the constantly variable inlet timing . Are there any specs as to where the cam timing starts and over what range it moves ?
On my 308 I made vernier gears and closed the lobe center angle up a degree or two and it made a huge deference in the torque the motor made .

I’ve advanced the inlet and retarded the exhaust on the mk2 Clio 1*2’s with some fantastic results, but not sure you’ll see the same results on the 200 motor. The R3 access has a different inlet cam and cam timing (I have the bits to fit at some point!!), but until it’s installed and mapped I can’t give any figures.

The 1*2’s got fantastic midrange results though, so in theory, the 200 should be the similar.

Don’t mill the pistons in the block mate - you’ll never remove all of the swarf.

 

[duck.co.za]

Did say in theory , nothing a little grease wont seal
So you opened the angle up . It's a while back now (2011 ) I must look at my notes as it was lift at TDC ,maybe I got it wrong . This is regards the V8 308 ( pic during rebuild ) .
When you say R3 ? Is that generation 3 ? As in 830/832 ? Or something else . I'd really like to know more about improving the midrange as I think this improves the driveablity of the car . This whole variable timing I need to understand a bit better , it's the first time I am delving into it . Am I correct in saying it can be alerted when you remap ?

 

[Dumdum]

Did say in theory , nothing a little grease wont seal
So you opened the angle up . It's a while back now (2011 ) I must look at my notes as it was lift at TDC ,maybe I got it wrong . This is regards the V8 308 ( pic during rebuild ) .
When you say R3 ? Is that generation 3 ? As in 830/832 ? Or something else . I'd really like to know more about improving the midrange as I think this improves the driveablity of the car . This whole variable timing I need to understand a bit better , it's the first time I am delving into it . Am I correct in saying it can be alerted when you remap ?

View attachment 125511

I presume you meant altered, in which case yes as it’s only an oil solenoid that allows pressure flow into the dephaser pulley which then makes the timing alter by a preset amount, it’s not as good as hondas vtec, that’s variable truly between point x and z, renaults is either x or z but not between

BMW use a proper variable setup in the mini turbo engine that’s rubbish and fitted in pugs and Citroen’s and was rubbish in those!

 

[duck.co.za]

Sorry yes altered . Interesting , thought I had read the 200 was continually variable . Any idea what x and z are ? So it is like the Ferrari 360 , at I think 5500 rpm it changes by x number of degrees ? The 360 is on the exhaust cam and was mainly to try and improve the emission .

Appreciate your input , thanks

 

[Dumdum]

Sorry yes altered . Interesting , thought I had read the 200 was continually variable . Any idea what x and z are ? So it is like the Ferrari 360 , at I think 5500 rpm it changes by x number of degrees ? The 360 is on the exhaust cam and was mainly to try and improve the emission .

Appreciate your input , thanks

Actually it may well be, my experience is with the 172/182, done loads of cambelts and pulleys at my old place repairgeot in Derbyshire, so it’s very possible they may have upped there game a bit, I will stand corrected if they have made it continuously variable

The Peugeot 2.0 and the mighty 3.0 V6 which is the same lump as the Clio V6 was x or y timing also, I know when we built the gaffer a 2.0 gti180 engined 205 noble motorsport mapped it and got the swapover way lower and it worked a treat, still only got 195.2bhp with minimal work (pretty much modded throttle body to run a pot and cable, and no cats) and there rollers are notoriously accurate and broke many a persons heart when they’d been told an engine was x,y and z

 

[Dumdum]

You are indeed correct, it’s continuously variable in the 197/200 on the intake cam only still

 

[duck.co.za]

Only what I had read , definitely not an expert .
So must be based on load and rpm ?

 

[Dumdum]

Only what I had read , definitely not an expert .
So must be based on load and rpm ?

It is according to the Wikipedia site, I’m fairly new to my 200 cup so I’m picking stuff up as I go, yes generally it’s varied on load and rpm as you say, it’ll be a balance between economy and grunt in a factory map

 

[Foxspeed]

197/200 went to variable inlet cam timing its also used (not so much in 172/182) to help with emissions as well

 

[Dumdum]

197/200 went to variable inlet cam timing its also used (not so much in 197/200) to help with emissions as well

Earlier engines had variable inlet timing also, not just 197/200

 

[duck.co.za]

Some progress , bottom end buttoned up and the head is on . Cams next .