Track Day Scrutineering Yes / No.....

[Danny French]

I was booked to do a Track Day on Tuesday but had to cancel due to a couple of niggles with my 309, I decided to go and watch as it was at my local track and only an hour away. I arrived at midday and the track was closed lunch was called early and it started again at just after 1pm. The track was only open for about an hour and a half in the afternoon and it was stop start all down to oil / fuel on the track eventually finishing early at around 3.20 I'm glad my car didn't make it !

Should Track Days have some form of scrutineering along with the noise check to avoid cars with prior oil leaks going out on track and cutting short the day. It is an expensive hobby and I think that if there was some checks done on the participants cars it would help avoid this happening, I don't think any one booked on this day had good value.

What do you guys think good or bad idea ?

 

[burrellbloke]

The problem with scrutineering is that is may well weed out obvious wrecks that are already leaking, or are about to explode, but most track cars are pushed beyond their limits and it is only a matter of time before something goes wrong that will cause an inconvenience to other track users in some way. In the 4 track days I have done I have seen a large number of cars "retire" before the end of the full session due to issues - some of which have caused fluids and oil to spill on to the track.

 

[suj]

The problem with scrutineering is that is may well weed out obvious wrecks that are already leaking, or are about to explode, but most track cars are pushed beyond their limits and it is only a matter of time before something goes wrong that will cause an inconvenience to other track users in some way. In the 4 track days I have done I have seen a large number of cars "retire" before the end of the full session due to issues - some of which have caused fluids and oil to spill on to the track.

This, for example no leaks on my E36 then right at the end of the day my output seal on gearbox started weeping.

But then I agree to a point with you, as some cars at some days I have seen which would fail a non-thorough MOT, let alone a real one.
My alignment place (he used to work on touring cars setting up cars and races, doesn't do trackdays much) he said someone trailered a rusty Civic trackcar to get alingment checked, he said he wouldn't want to be in that car in a crash, as it was so rusty, he was asking me if there is scutineering on trackdays, I told him there isn't he was shocked (as racing is so scutineered).

 

[Danny French]

The problem with scrutineering is that is may well weed out obvious wrecks that are already leaking, or are about to explode, but most track cars are pushed beyond their limits and it is only a matter of time before something goes wrong that will cause an inconvenience to other track users in some way. In the 4 track days I have done I have seen a large number of cars "retire" before the end of the full session due to issues - some of which have caused fluids and oil to spill on to the track.

I don't agree that most track cars are pushed to beyond their limits most track day heads maintain their cars and check them after each session for leaks etc it is the few idiots that ruin it for the responsible ones that's why the organisers maybe should step in a bit.

 

[J90RDN]

Depends if you want less time on track and higher trackday prices. Ultimately TDO is there to make money, so you start including scrutineering then that takes time and more importantly money.

I've done countless trackdays (probably well in excess of 40), and I've only ever seen 3 major oil spills I can think of. Funnily enough one was last Friday, when I was at Mallory. A blue Meglio put a rod through the block round Gerrards and dropped oil for about 1/4 of the track (remember Mallory isn't very long). There's no way anyone could have spotted that happening, and it put the track out of action for 30 mins - i.e. hardly a major issue.

Most of the trackday trash normally gets weeded out by about 10:30am, so be wary until then and just enjoy the day. You'll normally find that by 3:30pm you have the track more or less to yourself anyway

 

[burrellbloke]

it is the few idiots that ruin it for the responsible ones that's why the organisers maybe should step in a bit.

Completely agree.

 

[Helpimonfire]

Most of the trackday trash normally gets weeded out by about 10:30am, so be wary until then and just enjoy the day. You'll normally find that by 3:30pm you have the track more or less to yourself anyway

This happened at Snetterton when half the forum showed up! There was a turbo Civic that dumped its guts all over the track, then half an hour after the track opened again, a 172/182 expired, causing another red flag. Then I think the day was basically trouble free.

I kind of agree with the idea of scrutineering, but at the same time, sound testing alone can take a fair amount of time so you can only imagine how long it would take if every car had to be checked over.

 

[LiamP]

Was this Castle Combe? If so Dave apologised (blaming a mx5 and the marshals for being useless) and gave everyone a £50 refund.

 

[Danny French]

Depends if you want less time on track and higher trackday prices. Ultimately TDO is there to make money, so you start including scrutineering then that takes time and more importantly money.

I've done countless trackdays (probably well in excess of 40), and I've only ever seen 3 major oil spills I can think of. Funnily enough one was last Friday, when I was at Mallory. A blue Meglio put a rod through the block round Gerrards and dropped oil for about 1/4 of the track (remember Mallory isn't very long). There's no way anyone could have spotted that happening, and it put the track out of action for 30 mins - i.e. hardly a major issue.

Most of the trackday trash normally gets weeded out by about 10:30am, so be wary until then and just enjoy the day. You'll normally find that by 3:30pm you have the track more or less to yourself anyway

Quick look under the bonnet mirror / camer on a stick to check sump area jobs a good un.......maybe the Marshalls were too strict on this day but it was a short day out for everyone.......Gerrards is a great corner I've been at a day there when a 205 did the same baffled sump would have saved their engines the link below is the white 205.
3.30 is hopefully tear up time every time !

 

[Danny French]

Was this Castle Combe? If so Dave apologised (blaming a mx5 and the marshals for being useless) and gave everyone a £50 refund.

Yes it was...Dave is a top man and he is spot on they are

 

[Danny French]

This happened at Snetterton when half the forum showed up! There was a turbo Civic that dumped its guts all over the track, then half an hour after the track opened again, a 172/182 expired, causing another red flag. Then I think the day was basically trouble free.

I kind of agree with the idea of scrutineering, but at the same time, sound testing alone can take a fair amount of time so you can only imagine how long it would take if every car had to be checked over.

Agreed but poorly maintained cars are out there and it would it really take that long for a quick visual

 

[J90RDN]

Agreed but poorly maintained cars are out there and it would it really take that long for a quick visual

Yes, it really would. If a quick visual (assuming you're going to want other things checking as well) might only take 3 minutes (line up, get out of car, pop bonnet or aero catches, look round engine bay, close bonnet, get back in car, move off - that's probably more than 3 minutes actually), but that's 3 minutes x 60, so potentially 3 hours. Then there's the people who are going to not be happy with any decision that their car isn't safe, so sit there debating any decision. So then before you know it, that's a hell of a lot longer than the odd occasion there's a serious oil slick.

Plus, you start introducing scruitineering, does the TDO who effectively passes your car as "fit to drive on the circuit", then become responsible for it and any harm it may cause to other cars/drivers/the circuit? You laugh and think it's an exaggeration, but some clever smarmy lawyer might prove it.

Sorry, I don't think it's a flyer my friend.

 

[RSRowe]

It’s exactly that. The onus/liability is on the TDO scrutineers then.

If you want that kind of day, then maybe racing or Time Attack would be suited to you.

 

[Danny French]

Fair points it probably would cause hold ups and differences of opinions as to the condition of vehicles and probably wouldn't work lets hope none of us end up in the tyres / armco due to someones poorly maintained car leaking oil !

 

[Danny French]

It’s exactly that. The onus/liability is on the TDO scrutineers then.

If you want that kind of day, then maybe racing or Time Attack would be suited to you.

If I had the time money racing would !

 

[NickD]

Yes, it really would. If a quick visual (assuming you're going to want other things checking as well) might only take 3 minutes (line up, get out of car, pop bonnet or aero catches, look round engine bay, close bonnet, get back in car, move off - that's probably more than 3 minutes actually), but that's 3 minutes x 60, so potentially 3 hours. Then there's the people who are going to not be happy with any decision that their car isn't safe, so sit there debating any decision. So then before you know it, that's a hell of a lot longer than the odd occasion there's a serious oil slick.

Plus, you start introducing scruitineering, does the TDO who effectively passes your car as "fit to drive on the circuit", then become responsible for it and any harm it may cause to other cars/drivers/the circuit? You laugh and think it's an exaggeration, but some clever smarmy lawyer might prove it.

Sorry, I don't think it's a flyer my friend.

Exactly this.
Pre race scrutineering is not a check of the car's ability to throw oil everywhere, but is limited to specific things, mainly to do with the safety equipment in the car, if it is in date and securely fixed etc. Even at that there are between 5 and 10 people doing this and those that have raced will know the joys of queuing for maybe over an hour to even get to the scrutineering bay. In some case scrutineering is done the day before because unless you are going to get people to turn up at 5am, you are not going to get it done for half 8.
Imagine the scenario where you have turned up at track and the TDO's scrutineering team, which you would be paying for, tells you "sorry mate, you are not going out in that car because it looks like one that blew up last week, and don't even think about asking for money back."
And if that was the case best all sell your Clio's now, and with the reputation, none would ever be allowed on track!