The Nissan Leaf

[Mattb_197]

I have been looking at these lately, with an upcoming house purchase I’m going through all my spending and sadly the 197 does seem to suck up quite a bit of money in fuel, tax and insurance.

I have worked out that by part exchanging or selling the Clio and getting a Leaf I will save round about £100-£110 a month just based on the commute I do to work during the week.

The justifications are:
-I get a car that’s far newer, 2-3 years old with around 10-15k on the clock.
-The top of the range model has a BOSE sound system, touch screen sat nav/entertainment system with all round parking cameras. Full leather interior with heated front seats and steering wheel. Cruise control, climate control with A/C and a few other bits and bats. All the toys run off a normal 12v auxiliary battery most of the time that is trickle charged by a solar panel on the spoiler!

The negatives are:
-I have no off street parking, so I would be relying on work allowing me to charge up there 2-3 times a week or the rapid charger networks (which have recently started to charge so could wipe out any savings).
-A real world range of around 60-75miles (with the lower end being over winter as batteries are less efficient when the temperature drops). My commute is only about 24miles round trip each day so I could go 2-3 day before having to charge. I don’t do much if any driving during the week and at weekends I don’t really go further than 40-50miles at the most so easily doable on a full charge.
-Looks wise it’s an acquired taste, the interior isn’t bad but leaves a lot to be desired on the outside.

I know a lot of people on here will bawk at the idea of owning something like the Leaf and I to myself have in the past dismissed them. Recently I have warmed to the idea, my mate has had one for about 3 years and he swears by it. He has saved thousands in fuel costs too as he does a fair lengthy commute in his which requires a top up at a rapid charger on the way. I’ve been out in it a few times and it’s a strange sensation indeed, almost like your floating along. The LED headlights and rear lights are also quite cool at night.

Would anyone on here consider going full EV or not until the range improves? The Tesla Model 3 looks immense IF they can meet their production targets. ~215miles range and a 0-60mph time of under 6 seconds is fairly impressive for what is classed as a family car. https://www.tesla.com/model3

 

[nutnutwelshman]

We have a Kajar 1.6 dci free Road tax 60 mpg 5 up and a wheel chair Pram baby things highly recommended

 

[DS197]

Having an EV for commuting back and forth makes sense if you're saving money however having an EV as your only car depends on how much you enjoy cars. For some people straight line acceleration and knowing their Tesla could destroy 99% of cars off the line makes them happy. For others it's the noise, drama and "quirkiness" of a car that they enjoy. I'm personally in the camp of the latter and wouldn't solely own an EV, no matter how fast it was, i'd need to have a weekend car with a soul to make me enjoy driving again.

 

[Mattb_197]

Yeah that's the other problem, I've always been a petrol head and for the most part had hot hatches pretty much since I started driving almost 10 year ago now. I value handling and how the car feels to drive over straight line speed, one of the reasons I got the Clio even though there are faster hot hatches out there. That being said the sad truth is that the Clio is only really used for commuting 95% of the time, during the week I don't really drive anywhere where I can have fun and in the winter months it doesn't really get used in anger. It's only really summer and nice weekends it gets driven as it should.

Just been looking at insurance for the Leaf and surprisingly it's about £280-£300 a year MORE expensive to insure! Not sure what that's about lol. Guessing because it's a newer car and somewhat of an unknown in terms of repair costs. That being said with the tax on the Clio being £23 a month and £0 on the Leaf that would pretty much cover the extra premium.

The other car I've been considering is a 207 cc HDi, bit of a mid-life crisis car but it's double the MPG compared to the Clio and £30 a year to tax vs £270. Insurance is about the same as the Clio. Reckon I could pretty much do a straight swap if I traded in or possible get some cash my way if I can find a private buyer for mine. Getting the 207 would also mean I don't have to mess about borrowing more money on my loan and extending it to change cars, something I'd have to do on the Leaf.

Descisions descisions, I do quite like the idea of a metal hard top for the nice days in summer. Though I think I'd have to get it remapped as in standard form it could knock the skin of a rice pudding power wise. Think they're about 110bhp and 199lb-ft torque. Remapped they're about 140bhp and 210lb-ft on a fairly safe map which should make it a lot more lively.

 

[Johnny 99]

I'm still not there on electric cars. Yeagh I get that they can make economic sense if you're doing local trips, but would need another car for more. Not convinced on the green aspects. Batteries contain so many noxious chemicals that need to be disposed of once the battery is worn out. Plus they're only as green as the electricity supply they draw from. Tesla seem to have things sorted in Norway though, judging from an article in Top Gear magazine a few months ago. For me we need to look at the transportation & storage of nitrogen. Any internal combustion engine can be adapted to use it & all that comes out of the exhaust is water. Ok, we might have more humidity in the atmosphere but we'd still have the internal combustion engines that most of us on this forum know & love.

 

[Mattb_197]

I think the big switch to EV will happen in the next 5-10 years, I can't see it going away. Once they get the range to ~200 miles and affordable I think there will be more people willing to make the switch. The next Leaf due out sometime in 2017 and is going to have a range of over 200 miles, the Chevrolet Bolt is also coming out next year. VW are also rumored to be rushing through their own EV.

The stats show that the average Joe does about 40-50 miles a day pottering about to/from work and running errands so 200 miles range is plenty for most. I think rather than ever increasing the range (+cost and weight) of EVs they should concentrate on making them more efficient and affordable. If you could buy an EV that looks good, has ~200 miles of range for a similar price you can buy say a Ford Focus for today it would be a very temping proposition. When people realize you can get a car that will go 200 odd miles on £3-4 of electric it's going to be a game changer. OK there will always be the petrol heads, I class myself as one, but I think EVs are here to stay and they're only going to get better. Norway are on about banning the sale of all new cars burning fossil fuels from 2025 I remember reading somewhere.

 

[Jimmy]

I can see why you'd be tempted with the savings in fuel and tax etc, they make a lot of sense in that regard, and more so if you're using it for commuting/short journeys. I talked to an owner of a Leaf (he was a full-on supporter of the electric everything brigade, even had solar panels on his roof etc. Boring guy though, he could have sent a glass eye to sleep...) and he really rated it. He said the power was decent and he would never go back to a petrol.

From a practical viewpoint though, the fact you can't charge it from home could end up being a bit of a ball ache...? One of the big advantages of an electric vehicle would be the ability to plug it in whenever you wanted, rather than relying on someone else's supply. Perhaps a diesel would be a more practical solution? Or a small-engined petrol with low tax rates?

 

[Mattb_197]

Haha yeah, my friend who has one is rather wooden shall we say. They are quite nippy off the line, 0-35/40 mph you do get boy racers getting annoyed they can't out blast a milk float lol. They top out at 89 mph but they do feel quicker than the figures would lead you to believe. Handle like a barge though, even with the low center of gravity thanks to the battery being on the floor it's still wobbly. If I could charge at home I'd probably go for it but the fact I cant is a bit of stumbling block and I think something that will need to be addressed as well before the masses take up an EV. Not everyone has access to off street parking and running a cable across a public footpath just leaves you open to some scrote 'tripping' over it and putting in liability claim against you doesn't it. Someone had a good idea on an EV form to add a couple of 13amp charge ports to street lighting, it's low current compared to the fast/rapid charge options so new cabling shouldn't be needed and it would allow people to trickle charge overnight. No doubt they'd charge for it, but if it's cheap enough it's a rather good idea to the problem of on street charging.

I have been looking at diesels I used to own a Fabia vRS before the Clio but I've always said I wouldn't own the same car twice, the one I had was also the last off the line SE and I couldn't afford one of those again as they seem to have held their value better than the Clio sadly. I've found a rather tidy 207 cc HDi with low mileage for around the £3k mark, they've also said they'd offer me £3k for my Clio but I think I'd rather try and sell it private as I can probably get round about £4k for it private.

 

[montana]

Look at the total cost, how much will you have to spend to get the car ? You need to crunch the numbers to work out your break even,you may be surprised.

 

[Mattb_197]

The pull factor to go EV for me is the saving of over £100 a month just based on my commute to work during the week. That saving is taking into account having to add to my current loan to borrow more money as I don't own the Clio outright, well I do but I took a bank loan to buy it so owe on that sill. OK I'm borrowing more money yes but then you could argue I'm going from an almost 10 year old car to a 2-3 year old one. Another option I've considered is getting a cheap nasty car for like £500 and running that for a year or so but I've tried that in the past and it ended up being a nightmare always breaking down, so don't fancy risking it again! Need something reliable as my workplace is out in the sticks and I work funny shifts so can't be doing with having to rely on taxis or public transport.

I might end up keeping the Clio yet, need to see how it goes. I've just been going through all my spending with a fine tooth-comb with this house move coming up and anything that can get chopped is being chopped or considered for the chop lol. I've put a quick advert up on gumtree this evening for the Clio to test the water but I probably won't sell it unless I can get close to my asking price. I don't think I could justify accepting part exchange book figures considering the work I've done to it over the past year of ownership.

 

[montana]

part

The pull factor to go EV for me is the saving of over £100 a month just based on my commute to work during the week. That saving is taking into account having to add to my current loan to borrow more money as I don't own the Clio outright, well I do but I took a bank loan to buy it so owe on that sill. OK I'm borrowing more money yes but then you could argue I'm going from an almost 10 year old car to a 2-3 year old one. Another option I've considered is getting a cheap nasty car for like £500 and running that for a year or so but I've tried that in the past and it ended up being a nightmare always breaking down, so don't fancy risking it again! Need something reliable as my workplace is out in the sticks and I work funny shifts so can't be doing with having to rely on taxis or public transport.

I might end up keeping the Clio yet, need to see how it goes. I've just been going through all my spending with a fine tooth-comb with this house move coming up and anything that can get chopped is being chopped or considered for the chop lol. I've put a quick advert up on gumtree this evening for the Clio to test the water but I probably won't sell it unless I can get close to my asking price. I don't think I could justify accepting part exchange book figures considering the work I've done to it over the past year of ownership.

So with the additional cost of the loan minus the cost of the fuel saved, you will still be £100 per month better off?

Px prices are laughable - I am currently selling mine and to be honest the market is flooded with them at the moment, doesnt help prices when people are selling with prices starting with a 2 either - they are worth more than that!

 

[Mattb_197]

I've not seen any 197s up for that low a price? I looked on auto trader the other day and within a 50 miles radius the cheapest one was up for £4,395 or something around that mark, that's with a filter on for a similar sort of age/mileage to mine. Valuations are coming back at £3800 private sale, £2800 part exchange or £4400 trade sale - you can see the mark up on used cars! They buy it for £2800 and can sell it for around £4400 lol. I don't think I could justify taking £2800 for mine, not considering it's had the full cam belt service done at the start of this year, new ball joints and is mechanically rather good for it's age. The only way I'd consider it is if the car I was buying was in similarly good condition mechanically with proof of the work. Last thing I want to be doing is buying a car to save money then have to fork out for like a full service, cam belt change etc etc. Kind of defeats the object!

Regarding the Leaf, yeah it works out at roughly a £100 saving a month based on my work mileage. The rates on loans are very good at the moment so while it would mean borrowing more money over 2-3 years it's still working out around that. Have to remember I'm saving £23 a month on not having to pay tax as well. That being said though I'm not all that keen on adding another 2-3 years onto my loan. Might just look at getting a diesel again for a similar sort of value so I still get some savings but I don't have to mess about borrowing more.