Subframe adjustment - Help needed!!

[sevenfourate]

Here's the settings for my 200 that doesnt pull either way if it helps (?)

 

[Antti O]

@sevenfourate photo not work..

 

[sevenfourate]

@sevenfourate photo not work..

How strange - it's showing up right infront of my eyes here @Antti O

 

[Antti O]

Now it is okay.

 

[MrWid]

Here is my paperwork from tracking

Quick FI-UK

Etu = Front
Taka =Rear
Alkutilanne=Before tracking
Lopputilanne= After tracking
Ohjearvot = factory value range
Auraus= toe in/ toe out
Min=Minimum
Maks= Maximum
Kulkukulma= Angle where car is going, total tracking or something..
Yhteensä= Combined

Your alignment results look good and there's nothing on there that would cause pull. Would it be worth while to get it checked out on a second alignment machine just to confirm? Seek out a hunter machine if possible, also get them to print out symmetry and setback values to make sure everything is square

Other that that, swap your tyres around (although if you've fitted new tyres upfront and it drives the same it's doubtful it'll help), and as suggested before, remove spacers and try, but spacing the wheels out wouldn't cause a pull.

 

[Antti O]

@MrWid
I dont have any spacers or modifications, 100% stock car.
I swapped tyres for different sides, nothin changes..

 

[MrWid]

@MrWid
I dont have any spacers or modifications, 100% stock car.
I swapped tyres for different sides, nothin changes..

This thread had got a little confusing!

Looking back through its stuart that was having problems with his car pulling and related it to spacers, and your car follows the camber of the road.... which is normal

 

[Stuart Harpur]

Sorry, only getting back to posting a pic of the tracking results now (had a very busy weekend). This was after it was tracked with the 7mm spacers. In the mean time I had the H&R 20mm spacers fitted and new tyres. The tracking was checked after that by the same company who use the Hunter machine and I was told it was 100%..

 

[Stuart Harpur]

Tonight I took the wheels off, removed the spacers, put the wheels back on and took it for a drive in the hope it would solve the issue but unfortunately it still pulls to the left Only 1 thing left to do... black badge the sh*t out of it and bang it up on Ebay

That's obviously a joke, I'd never put a Black badge on blue steel

So I'm going to have to get the subframe removed and re-fitted, there's nothing else it could be. Thanks for all your reply's and I will keep you informed. In the mean time, if anyone else who has done this job reads the thread, please reply with all and any information you have. It would be greatly appreciated

 

[turkie172]

Any of you figures in red are not right so your caster and camber figures are out of spec the company has aligned the wheels as far as toe is concerned but the caster and camber seem out and are adjusted by moving the top of the shocks under the scuttle cover at the bottom of the window. Has there been any work done to the front shocks or the toe figures before alignment might have helped keeping the car in a straight line by overcoming the caster and camber effect. I guess your old tyres had uneven wear on the inside and the shock tops are as far back as they can go and towards the middle of the car the only other thing could be adjustable bushings have been fitted like the caster is almost double the max limit it seems like a fast track setup.

 

[Antti O]

One reason why camber and caster are not in green area are lowering springs.
I have saw many cars which have been lowered that tyre geometry is not correct. I dont know if this is true in clio, but it is one option. I dont know if red numbers cause pulling or not.

 

[Stuart Harpur]

Any of you figures in red are not right so your caster and camber figures are out of spec the company has aligned the wheels as far as toe is concerned but the caster and camber seem out and are adjusted by moving the top of the shocks under the scuttle cover at the bottom of the window. Has there been any work done to the front shocks or the toe figures before alignment might have helped keeping the car in a straight line by overcoming the caster and camber effect. I guess your old tyres had uneven wear on the inside and the shock tops are as far back as they can go and towards the middle of the car the only other thing could be adjustable bushings have been fitted like the caster is almost double the max limit it seems like a fast track setup.

I had the lowering springs fitted well before the tracking was done and after it was done, it felt great. I might just bring it to another alignment specialist before I remove the subframe, no harm in getting a 2nd opinion and I will show them this message. Hopefully they'll understand it better than I will

Cheers Turkie

 

[MrWid]

You've got slightly more negative camber on your front right than on your front left, its not a huge difference but it does tie in with the fault of pulling to the left. If you were going to unbolt and re-fit the subframe, try and pull the subframe to the left when its bolted back in place. This will push the bottom of the left wheel out and pull the bottom of the right wheel in, which makes more negative camber on the left and more positive on the right.

 

[MrWid]

And the alignment specs are wrong on that print out you've put up, which is why the values are in red

 

[Stuart Harpur]

And the alignment specs are wrong on that print out you've put up, which is why the values are in red

Would you recommend bringing it to a different alignment specialist before I remove the subframe?

 

[MrWid]

Would you recommend bringing it to a different alignment specialist before I remove the subframe?

Its unlikely you'll make things worse by trying to move the subframe yourself, & it wouldn't cause tyre wear if you get it wrong. If the subframe does move, you'll either make it pull more to the left, or you'll improve it. Clios aren't known for adjustable camber with moving the subframe, thats more VW/Audi style, but you may still get some movement on it. I know with mine that the steering wheel isn't quite as straight since the subframe was off recently, so there must be some movement when its bolted back up

 

[turkie172]

Here is the official documents for a 197 now you will have to allow for your car lowered beyond the factory heights which may affect the figures. You would need to check everything from the lower arm bushes, play in the track rod ends which I would suggest disconnecting from the hub assembly to test, the ball joints and the position of the top of the shocks in the turrets as there is scope for adjustment and will affect camber and caster. If the camber is correct then you are riding on the inside edges of the tyres great for turn in but sensitive to road defects try the N1 or N2 and check for pull under acceleration, coasting and braking a sticking front brake can cause pulling to a side.

 

[wr6warren]

did you ever get to the bottom of this?

 

[Kanazir]

Now i am interested too, i hope he is still here

 

[turkie172]

@wr6warren I don't know if nonmembers can open a new thread, but I would do that; it's hard to answer through multiple threads. I'm in Northern Ireland and don't mind helping. Let us know something about the car, what's been done with it, etc., only because someone fixing a crashed/damaged car would go and need to look along a completely different route than someone just repairing the ball joints or changing the shocks, if that makes sense. There is another factor to consider if the car is pulling, and that is the brakes could be grabbing/not releasing fully on the front but especially on the rear. I have been doing a lot of brake work on a 197 this past month. The handbrake cables were too short to start with, but most likely a wrong part supply problem. One rear caliper piston totally locked, and the rear discs and pads worn out as a result. Let your handbrake off and check that the little cable arm goes all the way to the stop; if it does not, then action needs to be taken. Adding the Megane spring helps the handbrake cable release..