Subframe adjustment - Help needed!!

Hey Folks.

I'm in trouble and need your help. I bought an Albi Blue 197 about 6 months ago, have to say, absolutely love it. The clutch was slipping when i got the car so it was the first job i done. It was also pulling to the left so when the mechanic was doing the clutch, I asked him to replace both inner tie rods as he had mentioned there was play in one of them. He done that, tracked it after and it felt amazing.

Recently I fitted H&R 30/40mm lowering springs and put 25 mil H&R spacers on the rear, it felt even better. I'd say it improved handling by 15%. Cornering had never been so much fun:smile: Although it handled well, the look of the front wheels under the arches, did not fill me with joy so I initially put 7mm spacers on the front (a lot cheaper than the H&R's and I didn't have to replace the bolts). It didn't feel great so I brought it to a reputable tyre company to get it tracked and balanced. It felt much better (but still not as solid in the front as it had without the front spacers). Anyway, after much front end starring and pondering, I decided to bite the bullet and order 20mm H&R spacers for the front, got them fitted, looked perfect. These cars really do look amazing when they're dropped and widened.

This was about 4 or 5 weeks ago and ever since, the car has been pulling to the left. It's also suffering from a slight steering wheel shake at speeds over 40mph. I brought it back to the tyre company to see if it needed to be tracked again after the spacers were fitted, they said it didn't but would check the tyres. After a quick inspection they diagnosed the issue as front tyres (even though there was about 75% thread left on them). I took their word, done a bit of research and the best value for money Vs handling tyre I came up with was the Hankook V12's. Ordered them, got them fitted last week and you'll never guess... still pulling to the left :worried: Got them to check the tracking again, they said it's perfect (thanks for the diagnosis lads)

I brought it back to a company I deal with who order and fit performance parts. I had ordered the powerflex upper torque arm bush and had it booked in with their guy to fit it this week. I explained the whole situation and asked if all the tie rod ends, ARB links, ball joints could be checked (in the hope that it was something simple). I got a call that evening to say everything was 100% with the steering although the lower engine mount is shot. Surely this couldn't be the issue,could it? Everything else looks perfect, there's new tyres, it's fully tracked, new inner tie rods... why is it pulling to the left? Anyone??

I've read about the subframe issues with Clio 197's, the fact that the bolt holes are bigger than the bolts. I've read that there's some kit available in Japan for £250 (hoping to avoid this option) but I've also read that a simple washer can resolve the issue. I've explained this to my mechanic and he's willing to take the job on, the only thing he has asked is to see if there is any confirmation on exactly what needs to be done or what washers to use. He doesn't want to drop the subframe without having the right parts to hand. Has anyone here done the job? Can you give me any tips to pass on to my mechanic?? I know when this issue is sorted, the car is going to feel amazing. The torque arm bush has tightened things up so much, it almost feels quicker now and there's great grip from the new tyres. I just want it to go in a straight line.. is that too much to ask? :worried: :smile:

Sorry for such a long winded question, I just wanted to give you a full back round to the work that's been carried out.

Hope you're all well and thanks in advance for any suggestions
 
Have you tried simply removing the spacer kit?

It's worth getting that lower mount sorted to look after your exhaust flexi's although the top mount will certainly be helping with that.

Can't comment on the sub frame issue but I would seriously suggest removing the spacers first as the problem only started after fitting these from what I can tell?
 
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Have you tried simply removing the spacer kit?

It's worth getting that lower mount sorted to look after your exhaust flexi's although the top mount will certainly be helping with that.

Can't comment on the sub frame issue but I would seriously suggest removing the spacers first as the problem only started after fitting these from what I can tell?
That's a good shout Mike. It was in the back of my mind about the spacers but I thought, how could they cause the car to pull left? Only one way to find out I suppose, I'll take them off at the weekend see how it effects things. Hopefully you're right :wink:

I didn't know a failing lower mount could have an impact on the flexis but I got a Lemforder one today so I'll get that on as soon as. Can't belive the different the torque arm bush made, it's so much tighter but there is a vibration in the cabin now. I'll put up with that:smile:

Cheers for the reply.
 
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I've owned two 197's and they've both pulled to the left. If there's a slight camber in the road the clio will follow it. I suggest either driving another clio and seeing if it's exactly the same or on an empty road drive on the right hand side and see if it pulls to the right as roads generally have camber to help water drain off. There's another thread on here somewhere of a guy who changed everything he could think of and it didn't change it. So there's probably nothing wrong with your car, it' may just be something you'll have to put up with..
 
I've owned two 197's and they've both pulled to the left. If there's a slight camber in the road the clio will follow it. I suggest either driving another clio and seeing if it's exactly the same or on an empty road drive on the right hand side and see if it pulls to the right as roads generally have camber to help water drain off. There's another thread on here somewhere of a guy who changed everything he could think of and it didn't change it. So there's probably nothing wrong with your car, it' may just be something you'll have to put up with..
The only thing is mate, the car was perfect after it got the 2 inner tie rods and was tracked. I drove it for 4 months like that and It was even better after I lowered it, it was dead straight on the road so there's a definitely an issue somewhere. It's either the subframe has to be re-adjusted or there's an issue with the spacers. I'll get to the bottom of it... hopefully :smile:
 
The only thing is mate, the car was perfect after it got the 2 inner tie rods and was tracked. I drove it for 4 months like that and It was even better after I lowered it, it was dead straight on the road so there's a definitely an issue somewhere. It's either the subframe has to be re-adjusted or there's an issue with the spacers. I'll get to the bottom of it... hopefully :smile:

Oh bummer, does sound like there's a problem then :worried: Good luck!
 
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My clio is pulling to right, because of road camber. If i drive in the opposite lane it pulls left.
Many clio 197 pull left or right because of road camber. If road is straight it goes absolute straight.

I have replaced:

Genuine shocks x4
Genuine front springs x2
Complete steering arms / track rods
Drop links horizontal/vertical
New michelin pilot sport 4 tyres
All stock suspension and geometry. No any spacers.
Tracking done twice, we even adjusted rear axle little bit.

It still pulls right..
Dont lose your sleep, i think it might be just typical for these cars..
 
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My clio is pulling to right, because of road camber. If i drive in the opposite lane it pulls left.
Many clio 197 pull left or right because of road camber. If road is straight it goes absolute straight.

I have replaced:

Genuine shocks x4
Genuine front springs x2
Complete steering arms / track rods
Drop links horizontal/vertical
New michelin pilot sport 4 tyres
All stock suspension and geometry. No any spacers.
Tracking done twice, we even adjusted rear axle little bit.

It still pulls right..
Dont lose your sleep, i think it might be just typical for these cars..

As much as I appreciate the response, I have to disagree Antti. I drove the car for 4 or 5 months and it drove perfectly, no pull left or right, on any road surface. Then I started to modify the suspension and have now developed a tracking issue. I also don't believe that all Clio's pull to the left, they're not meant to be like the way my car is, there is an issue somewhere.

If you read the online reviews after the 197's were released in 2006, not one reviewer mentions that the car pulls to the left. If they came out of the factory driving in a straight line, there should be no difference 69k miles later. I understand what you mean about the camber in the road but that's not the issue.

You mention you've changed a lot on your car, you even mention you adjusted the rear axle but did you adjust the front subframe? People have wrote about this being a real issue with the Clio's and I'm still hoping that someone on here, has done it and can give advice on how to do it.
 
No i did not do anything with subframe.
My wife do have 1.6-16v dynamique clio 3 and it also pulls right if road is cambered towards right. We drive in right lane because we have LHD cars.

Yes, there can be problem i agree, but it is not easy to solve.
 
Did you change tyres? Because when i bought michelin pilot sport 4 then my car started pulling right. With continentals i think it did not pull right..
 
No i did not do anything with subframe.
My wife do have 1.6-16v dynamique clio 3 and it also pulls right if road is cambered towards right. We drive in right lane because we have LHD cars.

Yes, there can be problem i agree, but it is not easy to solve.
I know but I'll get to the bottom of it. Maybe the subframe is the issue with all our left pulling cars and maybe we need a definitive way to solve it.. I'll let you know how I get on. Cheers mate
 
Did you change tyres? Because when i bought michelin pilot sport 4 then my car started pulling right. With continentals i think it did not pull right..
I changed the tyres because I was told the issue was the tyres. 2 brand new Hankook V12's.. they were not the issue, car still pulls (but I'm really enjoying the grip from them, great tyre) :smile:
 
If the subframe wasn't lined up it would show in the camber readings on an alignment check. Post up your alignment results if you can
 
Here is my paperwork from tracking

Quick FI-UK

Etu = Front
Taka =Rear
Alkutilanne=Before tracking
Lopputilanne= After tracking
Ohjearvot = factory value range
Auraus= toe in/ toe out
Min=Minimum
Maks= Maximum
Kulkukulma= Angle where car is going, total tracking or something..
Yhteensä= Combined


20170725_161658.jpg\big
 
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