Do slicks damage the car?

Hey guys,

Is anyone running full slicks without a LSD? From what I've read in some posts, it might damage the standard differencial. Can someone confirm this? Would it be better to stick with semi slicks until I have the LSD?

Please help me, track day coming soooon!

Thanks in advance for your expert advice :relaxed:
 
It will be your bushes that will get ruined also. I'd also say your suspension set up is far too soft to be running slicks.
Majority of trackdays do not allow slicks, if they do it's almost certain you need to have a cage
 
It will be your bushes that will get ruined also. I'd also say your suspension set up is far too soft to be running slicks.
Majority of trackdays do not allow slicks, if they do it's almost certain you need to have a cage

Thanks!! They do allow slicks here in Portugal, with or without cage. The thing is, I received the slicks, so I was wondering whether to use them or not. I can also try to sell them... Or just wait, I'd like to cage the Clio, buy bucket seats and proper coils late in the year, when I buy a Cupra 280 Sub8 to daily :grinning:
 
I'll never run slicks in a car without a cage as the additional speed you can carry through corners means that if the slicks let go, which they can do very abruptly, you'll be carrying much more speed in to the gravel/barrier.

All personal preference though as I know a lot of people who run slicks on their track cars without a cage.
 
Sometimes slicks can provide so much grip cars can overturn without sliding, it is linked to the level of grip v centre of gravity. But you didn't ask about the risk, consequences or chances of this, you asked about damage through usage.

I think the answer is yes, there will be some. More of a wear and tear being increased. I have not run Clio's with slick tyres, but over time this has been done on other similar cars.

Things that have happened are; stub axles have failed/sheared. Wheel bearing life has shortened. Subframes have cracked. This tends to be an over time thing though. Forces being transmitted into driveshaft cv joints because the engine and box is thrown around more is true. You might get problems with gear selection as you'll run out of revs in different places on a lap, be watchful of mis shifts if running street spec engine mounts. Just occaisionally things like wiring and piping is forced into contact with things it is not meant to touch, heat damage can sometimes be a problem. This is a precis of most the increased load problems experienced when streety vehicles get race related grip. I don't think the diff will be damaged at all directly. It might be affected from excess lateral load being transmitted into it - its just possible the gearbox case could distort to affect bearing clearances and running temp, but unlikely. You have to get things very hot to go over what the oil would withstand.

By all means have fun, try it. But if you are running an increased pace and exploiting the additional grip its not without its wear and tear consequences.

It is worth doing some research into knowing how to look after true race tyres, and know when they are finished. Some slicks are treadless street carcass tyres - these would be about idiot proof... others are highly sensitive products that will fail if mis used.

Andy
 
Sometimes slicks can provide so much grip cars can overturn without sliding, it is linked to the level of grip v centre of gravity. But you didn't ask about the risk, consequences or chances of this, you asked about damage through usage.

I think the answer is yes, there will be some. More of a wear and tear being increased. I have not run Clio's with slick tyres, but over time this has been done on other similar cars.

Things that have happened are; stub axles have failed/sheared. Wheel bearing life has shortened. Subframes have cracked. This tends to be an over time thing though. Forces being transmitted into driveshaft cv joints because the engine and box is thrown around more is true. You might get problems with gear selection as you'll run out of revs in different places on a lap, be watchful of mis shifts if running street spec engine mounts. Just occaisionally things like wiring and piping is forced into contact with things it is not meant to touch, heat damage can sometimes be a problem. This is a precis of most the increased load problems experienced when streety vehicles get race related grip. I don't think the diff will be damaged at all directly. It might be affected from excess lateral load being transmitted into it - its just possible the gearbox case could distort to affect bearing clearances and running temp, but unlikely. You have to get things very hot to go over what the oil would withstand.

By all means have fun, try it. But if you are running an increased pace and exploiting the additional grip its not without its wear and tear consequences.

It is worth doing some research into knowing how to look after true race tyres, and know when they are finished. Some slicks are treadless street carcass tyres - these would be about idiot proof... others are highly sensitive products that will fail if mis used.

Andy


Great post Andy.

Some possible long-term 'failings' in there i hadnt even comprehended.

Welcome to the forum BTW if i missed an intro :smile:
 
There's also the issue of driver ability. Not commenting on the OP here, but I think if it's a first track day, it's worthwhile first exploring the traction limits of the car on road tyres....just knowing its limits and how it reacts when grip is lost on these is highly valuable for daily driving. Thereafter, if it's track time you're chasing, then it will be the vicious cycle of engine, gearbox, diff, suspension, tyres...and understanding that these are a chain, wherein the weakest link will always fail! And that's what credit cards are for :tongueout:
 
There's also the issue of driver ability. Not commenting on the OP here, but I think if it's a first track day, it's worthwhile first exploring the traction limits of the car on road tyres....just knowing its limits and how it reacts when grip is lost on these is highly valuable for daily driving. Thereafter, if it's track time you're chasing, then it will be the vicious cycle of engine, gearbox, diff, suspension, tyres...and understanding that these are a chain, wherein the weakest link will always fail! And that's what credit cards are for :tongueout:

Thanks for the advice! It's not the first track day though, I have done several ones in several cars, even a Seat Leon Supercopa mk2, which was awesoooome, and a Formula Ford, wich was suuuuuper awesome! In the Clio I have done a handful, all with Michelin Cup 2's, which I quite like... So I'll then stick to the Cup2's for the upcoming "track days season" ahah (I'm saving the credit card for a Leon Cupra 280 Sub8, but once that is sitting in the driveway, the Clio will go to the garage and receive diff, suspension, cage, bucket seats... )

Here is a clip of my last track day, having so much fun with a friend in a similar (but better prepped car)
 
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The main thing about increased grip is oil throw. Have had some things - Rover's and 5 series BMW (even early M3's are a bit marginal) that can't do one long corner.

Never heard of newer RS Renault's suffering oil starvation - we've had 10 Clio's and have 24? Meganes - but they mostly run street tyres, the hopeless P Zero Nero. Some run MPSC's. Not seen Clio Cup race car's starve thier oil. Does anyone know if the race cars run a different baffle arrangment?

As an odd one. Meganes RS265. The ABS pumps have failed to open circuit. Happened twice. An exceptionally odd failure huh.
 
The main thing about increased grip is oil throw. Have had some things - Rover's and 5 series BMW (even early M3's are a bit marginal) that can't do one long corner.

Never heard of newer RS Renault's suffering oil starvation - we've had 10 Clio's and have 24? Meganes - but they mostly run street tyres, the hopeless P Zero Nero. Some run MPSC's. Not seen Clio Cup race car's starve thier oil. Does anyone know if the race cars run a different baffle arrangment?

As an odd one. Meganes RS265. The ABS pumps have failed to open circuit. Happened twice. An exceptionally odd failure huh.
I was looking at oil starvation for the Clio myself and as far as I can see, the cup racers use a standard sump

ETA: Looks like the standard sump is good for slicks and short periods of 1G lateral force (http://www.clio197.net/threads/197-200-in-motorsport.25250/)