200: Brakes working poorly

[AndyBMX]

Hi All,

Hoping for some guidance with an issue I'm having on my 200.

I've owned the car since October and over the last few months I've noticed that my brakes are getting progressively worse. When braking there is a fair bit of travel in the pedal and no real bite, and if I come off the brakes and press them down again straight away, they work better but again there is no real bite as there should be. I basically have to double pump the brakes every time I slow down.

I initially thought this would be air in the system but I've had the brakes bled and apparently there was no air in the system. Does anyone have any ideas on what to check first? I thought about having the calipers rebuilt to see if there was any issues with the pistons etc, but thought I'd see if anyone has any other suggestions before I do that. The fronts disks/pads were replaced at the end of 2017 and the rears were done mid 2018.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sean197]

Usual suspect is the calipers, with the pistons getting corroded due to water ingress and sticking. You could remove the pads and add some copper grease to their backs and see if that helps, but most likely it's the calipers themselves.

 

[AndyBMX]

Usual suspect is the calipers, with the pistons getting corroded due to water ingress and sticking. You could remove the pads and add some copper grease to their backs and see if that helps, but most likely it's the calipers themselves.

Thanks mate. If the pistons are sticking is it just a case of cleaning the calipers and replacing the seals?

 

[EDDY_EST]

Hey.

If you plan to keep the car for a while I would personally just rebuild the brakes. The seal kit is pretty cheap and while the caliper is off you can get it poweder coated. (Cost me 25€) Braided brake lines and updated brake fluid are a good option while you are working the brakes.

Pretty cheap and easy job if you are mechanically minded but I imagine I would be expensive to take it to a shop.

 

[Liam Gunby]

I kind have the same issue on my 197. I have uprated disks and pads plus braided lines and hi temp fluid. Had the brakes bled few weeks ago too. how easy is it to replace the seals in the caliper?
Im no mechanic but can do most bits. is there a guide? Plus anyone got a link to the kit?

Thank you.

 

[Foxspeed]

check them first before jumping in thinking the seals/pistons are at fault....

also check what pads you had fitted were they a known supplier?

remove all the pads - makes sure all is free - then glaze bust the disc surface and pads with emery tape in case its just from glazed material...a dab of lube in the right places & rebuild & test

 

[turkie172]

I'll second that unless the seal in the front callipers is damaged I would not change them the slides the pad sits in can corrode and jam the pads from moving or one pad will move the other stay in place. When I got my car the brakes felt wooden no feel and when pressed all the way at traffic lights it was not a hard stop in the travel. But clean up the slides and copper grease the pad edge which makes contact and the back on the piston contact patch, But if you pull the pistons and check them and wet the seals with brake fluid you should be able to push them with your thumb. With the bike racing you have to be carful with pad types we had a problem with carbon fibre pads contaminated the disc surface and every pad we used after the brakes were crap so we had to emery the disc surface to remove the contaminated layer and everything came back into line. But I must admit I put new genuine discs on with the brembo pads and for the first 200 miles I was braking like a D**k as they were so sharp with the bedding in surface the slightest touch would put you through the windscreen. The rear discs also need attention they can help the braking big time only if your careful your can put a couple of clicks on the handbrake to take up the slack then brake both steps with common sense and care there is normally a difference not that you would drive every day like that.

 

[Doogle]

I recently had brake problems, vagueness, no real bite, etc. Turns out the pad material had come away from the backing and was causing problems. Once found was an easy sort but potentially could have been a big issue if not sorted. Worth giving the calipers a cleanup and pads a check, naff pads dont help these. Average pads (Renault or Brembo own) are ok but things like DS1.11 and PBS pads seem a better choice for bite and will give you more confidence.

 

[AndyBMX]

Thank you for all of the replies and advice - much appreciated!

I'll start with checking the pads/giving them and the disks a good clean. I may well also replace the pads as they're over 2 years old now anyway. If that doesn't work I'll get the calipers serviced.

 

[AndyBMX]

I kind have the same issue on my 197. I have uprated disks and pads plus braided lines and hi temp fluid. Had the brakes bled few weeks ago too. how easy is it to replace the seals in the caliper?
Im no mechanic but can do most bits. is there a guide? Plus anyone got a link to the kit?

Thank you.

There's a pretty detailed how-to for the caliper rebuild here mate - https://www.clio197.net/threads/front-caliper-rebuild.32384/

 

[NickD]

I confess to not knowing an intimate knowledge of the Clio brakes but what you are describing is a classic symptom of something backing off after each press of the pedal. I would check the rear calipers are sliding properly and the pads aren't cheese shaped before you start refurbing the fronts.

 

[AndyBMX]

I confess to not knowing an intimate knowledge of the Clio brakes but what you are describing is a classic symptom of something backing off after each press of the pedal. I would check the rear calipers are sliding properly and the pads aren't cheese shaped before you start refurbing the fronts.

Good shout, thanks buddy. I plan on giving all 4 corners a check this weekend to try and work out what's what.

Is there any chance that this could be ABS related? Or would that cause different symptoms?

 

[NickD]

Good shout, thanks buddy. I plan on giving all 4 corners a check this weekend to try and work out what's what.

Is there any chance that this could be ABS related? Or would that cause different symptoms?

I would suggest you have pad knock off in some form or other. A malfunctioning ABS modulator would certainly not help the situation but I would fully expect lights on the dashboard. Easiest way to check if it the rears is to pull the hand brake on and then brake and see if there is still the same amount of pumping required. If a rear is seized though it might not show. And, obviously, don't do it in rush hour!

 

[AndyBMX]

So on Saturday I took the old pads out, gave the calipers a good clean and stuck some new pads in (Brembos), and the brakes feel a whole lot better! The pistons were perfectly free, nice and easy to push back in, so I think the seals in the calipers are fine.
I'm still not sure if the brakes are perfect (maybe I'm expecting too much?), but they feel much better and I no longer have to double pump them to get any form of bite. Hopefully once the pads bed in a bit there will be a little bit more of a bite, but for now I'm happy.

The existing Brembo pads that were probably only about 40% worn so I'm not sure why they were so poor, possibly contaminated?

 

[Sean197]

So on Saturday I took the old pads out, gave the calipers a good clean and stuck some new pads in (Brembos), and the brakes feel a whole lot better! The pistons were perfectly free, nice and easy to push back in, so I think the seals in the calipers are fine.
I'm still not sure if the brakes are perfect (maybe I'm expecting too much?), but they feel much better and I no longer have to double pump them to get any form of bite. Hopefully once the pads bed in a bit there will be a little bit more of a bite, but for now I'm happy.

The existing Brembo pads that were probably only about 40% worn so I'm not sure why they were so poor, possibly contaminated?

It's a good idea to give them a strip and clean at least once a year, I did mine every 6 months (about 4-5000 miles) to keep on top of them and never had any issues.

 

[Foxspeed]

It's a good idea to give them a strip and clean at least once a year, I did mine every 6 months (about 4-5000 miles) to keep on top of them and never had any issues.

the most important bit to follow...this forum is full of brake issues and the majority get sorted by this!