197 stays in cold map?

[520860]

Hi folks!

I need some advice. I have a 197 RS from 2006. Since a couple of weeks, a problem keeps reoccuring: the car is low on power, and I'm guessing this is because it stays in cold map. Even after driving 30 minutes, it still doesn't have the punch it got normally.

Here are the symptons I'm experiencing:

• Intake/exhaust noise is darker than normal
• Idling is normal and stable, engine takes revs as it should
• No lights on the dash
• After a restart, the problem is gone (when the engine is warm)
• Temparture needle fluctuates between the second and third bar
• Problem started occuring after the ambient temparture started to go below 10 C

I already did some searching on this forum, and the only tip I found is resetting the ECU by removing the battery for a minute or ten. So I did, but the problem is still there (although I would say it occurs less frequently, but that could also be a bit of bias )

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[suj]

Haven't you answered your own question? It needs a new thermostat.
They run 75degree thermostats that should sit just under the third line with normal driving, then onto the third line in traffic.

Make sure you buy a genuine one (like I said, it's a 75degree thermostat, not an 89degree you get in other csrs / what is in 172s and 182s).

 

[520860]

Thanks for you reply! But I do not see the connection... How would a restart affect the thermostat? I mean, the problem is gone when I restart the car (and the engine is warm, needle just a bit under the third line)

 

[turkie172]

No one said anything about a restart how do you know your car is stuck in a cold map I don't think your explaining the problem well and your guessing are you sure your not in limp mode that the car will not rev over say 4000RPM or that you have a misfire that can happen without any warning lights and has a loss of power. Why not join the forum it's £5 and have a look through the "How to section" which it unlocks I'm sure there is something useful in there we like to help people I understand you are in the Netherlands you might have a "cam sensor" problem that can result in loss of power and is a common fault. It is not he sensor in the gearbox it's the one in the Engine the one in the gearbox is the "crank position sensor".

I would guess that it could be the CAM sensor I am not sure if there is a warning light with the fault but it does have the effect of power loss (punch) when it is faulty and a common fault also check the connector for corrosion as this will effect the signal from the sensor. It can also be Lambda sensors etc. but without error codes you are guessing.





Crank Sensor


Cam Sensor

 

[suj]

Thanks for you reply! But I do not see the connection... How would a restart affect the thermostat? I mean, the problem is gone when I restart the car (and the engine is warm, needle just a bit under the third line)

I'm a bit confused, you aaid your temperature gauge is fluctuating between second and third line, the stat is on its way out regardless, like I explained in my post it should sit slightly under the third line, then only creeping slightly up onto the third line when stationary traffic.

As Turkie said, it could be many things, it's a guessing game if it's a sensor, you need to find a Renault specialist near you to scan it on the Renault CLiP software, it might tell you straight away the problem.

 

[turkie172]

Yea I think the original poster says it moves between the second and third line which is the same as what mine does and when it hits the third line the fan comes on so that must be just above 75 Degrees my car had a faulty stat before and the problem was it could not get over the second line after a new water pump, thermostat during full timing belt change it moves up and down between the second and third marks the third mark being max and since I am in the country it does not often sit steady just below the third line. Now I am wandering could a build up of contamination cause the sensor to under read the temperature. The 172 Clio that I had for 12 years always went to the 3/4 mark and stayed there and I never remember it ever moving unless it was warming up.

 

[RSRowe]

Something else seems to be a problem here.
When my thermostat was faulty the car pulled absolutely fine. The only difference in fitting a new thermostat was around 3mpg difference in the average.

 

[turkie172]

That was the gain I got after fixing the thermostat and also if the rear calipers are starting to bind and now is the time if year for it can cause an equal or larger negative effect on fuel consumption.

 

[suj]

Yea I think the original poster says it moves between the second and third line which is the same as what mine does and when it hits the third line the fan comes on so that must be just above 75 Degrees my car had a faulty stat before and the problem was it could not get over the second line after a new water pump, thermostat during full timing belt change it moves up and down between the second and third marks the third mark being max and since I am in the country it does not often sit steady just below the third line. Now I am wandering could a build up of contamination cause the sensor to under read the temperature. The 172 Clio that I had for 12 years always went to the 3/4 mark and stayed there and I never remember it ever moving unless it was warming up.
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I did a long log session using OBD to find the correct position of needle and it shouldn't be getting anywhere near the 2 line Turkie, it should be minimum midway between 2 and 3. Because they are a 75degree stat they fail quite a lot, as in normal day to day driving it is opening and closing a lot more than a 89degree stat.
The fan kicks in at 90-91degrees and then should stop at 75 (but of course this is at a certain point when flowing, so it dips a little in the gauge to near midpoint).

Many people think like what you described is "normal" because people don't realise how much they can fail unfortunately. I've changed 2 now in 3 years (but I was doing 20k miles a year, so I was using the car 75miles a day on motorway, before lockdown).

 

[DS197]

I did a long log session using OBD to find the correct position of needle and it shouldn't be getting anywhere near the 2 line Turkie, it should be minimum midway. Because they are a 75degree stat they fail quite a lot, as in normal day to day driving it is opening and closing a lot more than a 89degree stat.
The fan kicks in at 90-91degrees and then should stop at 75 (but of course this is at a certain point when flowing, so it dips a little in the gauge to near midpoint).

Many people think like what you described is "normal" because people don't realise how much they can fail unfortunately. I've changed 2 now in 3 years (but I was doing 20k miles a year, so I was using the car 75miles a day on motorway, before lockdown).

Agreed, it should be at position 3 or just under. Any less and it’s probably a faulty thermostat if the car has been running for a while.

 

[520860]

Thanks for all the responses guys! Really helpful!

No one said anything about a restart how do you know your car is stuck in a cold map I don't think your explaining the problem well and your guessing are you sure your not in limp mode that the car will not rev over say 4000RPM or that you have a misfire that can happen without any warning lights and has a loss of power.

A restart fixes the problem immediately, that's the weird thing. I'm sure it's not in limp mode, because it goes beyond 4000 RPM, without hesitation. It actually goes up to 7000 RPM without any problems. There's just very little power, doens't mattter how much revs.

Why not join the forum it's £5 and have a look through the "How to section" which it unlocks I'm sure there is something useful in there we like to help people

Didn't know that actually, might do that if it unlocks a How to section. Might come in handy

I'm a bit confused, you aaid your temperature gauge is fluctuating between second and third line, the stat is on its way out regardless, like I explained in my post it should sit slightly under the third line, then only creeping slightly up onto the third line when stationary traffic.

Agreed, it should be at position 3 or just under. Any less and it’s probably a faulty thermostat if the car has been running for a while.

Most of the time the needle is just below the third line. But sometimes, it fluctuates: it goes down to just above the second line (minimum) and up to the third line (maximum).

 

[520860]

This morning it was around 5 degrees outside, but after approx. 15 minutes of driving (temp needle in the normal position, just below the third line) I had all power, no restart needed. It seems like the car changes mood every day

 

[suj]

Sounds like it could be sensor related then, get to someone with CLiP or you're going to be playing sensor lottery and it's an expensive game!

 

[burrellbloke]

I have been following this thread.

My temperature gauge only gets to the second marker in @turkie172's picture in normal driving, and will go up to the third marker if the car has been sat in traffic. My fan does kick in every now and then, but only when the car has been sat idling for a long time at a standstill.

I have got a 200. Can someone let me know what the part number is to replace the thermostat?

 

[suj]

I have been following this thread.

My temperature gauge only gets to the second marker in @turkie172's picture in normal driving, and will go up to the third marker if the car has been sat in traffic. My fan does kick in every now and then, but only when the car has been sat idling for a long time at a standstill.

I have got a 200. Can someone let me know what the part number is to replace the thermostat?

@renaultpartsdirect have them, but their site is currently down, but make sure you get a genuine one and it is the 75degree stat, my first one I needed changing ASAP and I bought a Gates one and it failed after 2months!
Since then a genuine one has been in and it has been fine.

 

[suj]

I have been following this thread.

My temperature gauge only gets to the second marker in @turkie172's picture in normal driving, and will go up to the third marker if the car has been sat in traffic. My fan does kick in every now and then, but only when the car has been sat idling for a long time at a standstill.

I have got a 200. Can someone let me know what the part number is to replace the thermostat?

I just had a look and part number is: 8200772994
RPD are currently updating their site, but will be back online ASAP.

 

[520860]

Sounds like it could be sensor related then, get to someone with CLiP or you're going to be playing sensor lottery and it's an expensive game!

I will give the dealer a call Monday to get the car in for diagnosis. Seems like the best option right now.

 

[suj]

I will give the dealer a call Monday to get the car in for diagnosis. Seems like the best option right now.

Where do you live? It might be better going to a specialist, as dealers tend to not know much about RSs, just the normal cars, then also it's good to know of a specialist nearby when you need further work doing in the future.

 

[burrellbloke]

I just had a look and part number is: 8200772994
RPD are currently updating their site, but will be back online ASAP.

Thanks @suj

 

[turkie172]

With Renault clip running I have taken the car for a run the outside temp is 10 Degrees dry and no wind I drove through the town and 60 MPH dual carriageway to the next town about 10miles total 15 minutes no traffic.
The temperature gauge only crossed the first line at 50 degrees and the second line at about 70 degrees the thermostat opened a little bit past that line at 76 degrees and I know as the temperature started to drop to about 60 and climbed again the car stayed around 73 degrees for the rest of the journey. I sat and let the temperature climb with about 2,000 revs until it reached 89 degrees touching the third line and did not move much further as the temperature got up to about 90 degrees low fan kicked in and at 94 the high speed fan came on and the temperature dropped to 87 degrees.

So gauge lines 1=50 Degrees
2=70 Degrees
3=90 Degrees

Fan low speed active 89-90 degrees
Fan high speed active which deactivates the low speed at 94 Degrees

Now I don't know why the car does not go up and stay at the third line and my thermostat is opening I can only conclude that the radiator is too efficient and over cooling or the thermostat is not closing again after opening either by fault or the coolant flow overcomes it's ability to close.