197/200 subframe locating pins

[Steve.humberstone]

Hi Guys,

I recently had the front subframe off for a gearbox job, while it was out I also welded in some solid subframe mounts, since putting everything back together however my alignment is pretty whack, front right wheel seems to be further forward than the left, I have since read that there are locating holes on the subframe but I cannot find them, does anyone know where these are or have any hints/tricks to align the front subframe?

Cheers
Steve

 

[funMACHINE]

I think , it should align about these "pins" around the bolts ...

 

[Steve.humberstone]

That's what I had thought, however reading into it apparently it's an issue when removing the subframe and it needs aligning with some holes on the chassis rails - which would explain why alignment is off, but cannot find anything. There are holes on the subframe but can't spot any holes for it to align with on the chassis

 

[S24nrc]

The only thing you could do is loosen off the subframe bolts and try and move it around, but if those bushings posted above are located properly you're unlikely to be able to do anything with it imo. I've had the subframe off countless times doing Megane conversions and there's never been an issue with alignment.

 

[VeiRoNv2]

Quite difficult to not align the rear bushes,they slot in easily where they are supposed to go,as far as I know that's the only two locating points.
I would be more inclined into looking at the front ones since you have welded solid mounts,they might not be aligned properly somehow.
Have you got some pictures of these front mounts?

 

[Steve.humberstone]

Sounds like what I had originally thought, might just drop it down and force it as far back as possible and see what impact this has. These are the solid mounts (I went for the kit from wheeler motorsport, everything fitted as expected)

 

[VeiRoNv2]

Oh sorry I thought you meant the front solid mounts,so you just have the rear solid mounts, that's strange...

 

[Steve.humberstone]

It’s both the front and rear - 6 in total, will see if I can shift it this evening

 

[Steve.humberstone]

Bit of an update, I have supported the subframe, loosened all bolts that attach it to the chassis, removed the rear 2 bolts, dog bone removed, suspension all still connected and the rear right subframe bolt hole is indeed off centre (front of the car is to the left of the picture - this would make the front right wheel further forward than the front left)



I then used a pry bar and was able to shift the subframe a good few mm forward and back (it was not dropped so the tops of the mounts would still be in the holes), unfortunately I cannot upload the video of that here.

Spoke with Josh at Wheeler motorsport and he agrees with what everyone believed to be the case - the top of the mounts should engage in the holes and align the subframe. It's just not what i'm seeing!

I will continue my investigation....

 

[turkie172]

The heat of welding in the solid mounts might have distorted the subframe here is an FIA document for subframe and dimensions for checking crash damage. You might need to pull the subframe straight or realign the lower arms to compensate, with the info you can work out what's wrong but from the stuff I've seen the wheels when lowered sit forward rubbing where the bumper meets the wing.

What after market wheels for cup racer geo/suspension

 

[Steve.humberstone]

Thanks Turkie, I’m going to reassemble with some bias applied, check alignment and then see what measurements I come up with.

The bushes (once welded in from the top) were perfectly concentric on the underside of the subframe so I don’t think it has warped at all.
I’m still perplexed where misalignment could come from otherwise in light of a lack of alignment pins but general consensus being it self aligns on the tops of the bushes - despite finding free play when in place (obviously the factory assembles them and it would be kept as simple as possible!) maybe it’s a red herring…

 

[turkie172]

I think your weld in bushes are not quite the right depth and shape to make a good positive location into the chassis compare the photos and the play might be the bolt bottoming out in the hole thus not holding the subframe tight enough into the location hole to stop movement

 

[burrellbloke]

These are a few photos of my subframe with solid subframe bushes.

@turkie172 is usually right about these technical issues.