197: +12v switched signal for starter missing, (not cranking) SOLVED

[Antti O]

Hello

Clio 197 would not start. No crank.
Not even sound from solenoid.

Car towed for french car specialist yesterday. I got call today:

-No signal for starter
-Push start car starts okay
-Starter works fine.

Normal key ignition, no key card.
Is there some common problem?
any help appreciated...

 

[turkie172]

Sorry it is so late at night

OK the manifold was replaced if like me I had a problem that the starter motor the heat shield was touching the positive terminal on the starter and blew the fuse in the box beside the battery 20Amp. Check the shield has not moved first what I used was a bit of mud flap rubber and put it in between the terminal and heat shield until I had a chance to readjust the shield I did this reaching through the manifold arms from above. The terminal is always live to the battery refitting the manifold after repair might have moved the heat shield.

 

[Antti O]

@turkie172
Many thanks once again, i just sent email for that garage.
It could be this, makes sense..

 

[Dumdum]

Just an aside... that would make sense but the 20a fuse definitely isn’t for the permenant live terminal, that fuse is for the trigger wire, 20a fuse would splatter in seconds if it was for the permenant live, the 20a fuse is for the smaller terminal just above the big one in the pic and almost looks yellow/brassy coloured, this is the starter trigger feed and comes via the ignition switch and is only live when cranking

 

[Antti O]

Yep, that is correct. I think that 20A fuse is only for switched +12V for starter.
Nothing new today, maybe tomorrow something.. maybe not

 

[turkie172]

Yea it's something to do with the low voltage switch that allows the live feed to power the starter motor called the solenoid I think it's just something I experienced after changing manifolds when the manifold was off I removed the heat shield but did not check how it was clipped onto the starter after the manifold is fitted the shield can only be removed by taking the starter out from the side so I managed to disconnect the link cable between the solenoid and the motor body slide the shield off and refit it correctly. I knew something was wrong when I started the car for the first time it felt lazy on the starter the second time I went to start it was the fuse , The push button start said something like steering unlocked but did not turn over. I wedged a piece of mud flap in to separate the shield from touching the positive terminal until I got the car to the lift to fix it properly then found the blown fuse and replaced it the car started no problem I guess it must be a big Renault problem as the Clio 200 shield had a leg with bolt hole to the back of the engine so it would only sit in one position and could not move. I think I put both spring clips around the motor body when one goes under the motor body and the upper goes over the start solenoid.

 

[Antti O]

Tomorrow i will pick up car from that specialist if there is no solution. I can drive it after push start.

 

[Antti O]

Solved!

Starter heat shield was touching starter switched +12v. Fuse blown.
@turkie172 i have to thank you if you live here definetly free pint or two.
Today i collected car from mechanic

 

[turkie172]

That's what the forum is for I like your 197 it's always clean and happy to share


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[Dumdum]

Solved!

Starter heat shield was touching starter switched +12v. Fuse blown.
@turkie172 i have to thank you if you live here definetly free pint or two.
Today i collected car from mechanic

Was it same mechanic that fitted exhaust manifold? If so I hope it was free...

 

[Antti O]

Was it same mechanic that fitted exhaust manifold? If so I hope it was free...

No, i have to pay 3 hours labour (202£) total.
This time car was in french car specialist (peugeot / citroen official service garage).
Most of the labour was because they took starter motor off, diagnosed it and put it back in car.

 

[Dumdum]

They took the starter off and couldn’t work out the heatshield was pressed against it? I’d be moaning like crazy at 3 hrs for that! Sorry but as a mechanic of 12+years if my apprentice didn’t spot that I’d probably sack him! Ten minute fix (and a multimeter would diagnose it in situ!) robbing f**kers!

 

[turkie172]

I guess then since it is a different place fixing the car then they would have to charge and to remove the starter adjust and refit would be a 3hr job Renault book time it took me at least 2 hrs to figure a way to get around the heat shield problem without removing the starter or manifold and I thought it was clear of the terminal when putting the manifold back on. After that I bought a Clio 200 starter heat shield that has a leg that bolts to the engine block which controls the clearance I guess Renault had a lot of problems to go ahead and make a modified part.


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[Antti O]

My written english is not the best but i try to explain this more.

Exhaust manifold repair was done by my friend who did whole job in his own garage.
Tuesday morning when car was not starting in my home parking place, i had to call tow truck.
My friend was busy with his own projects, because of that my car was towed in another place. It was local french car specialist.

Unfortunately they had almost week waiting time. When i told them to check that heat shield they found out that fuse has been blown. I dont know why they took starter motor off. What i think is that they want to be sure that starter is fine.
I have to pay that check, because that took most of the labour time (starter removal / assembling back).
Heat shield adjustment and +12v switched terminal protection would be enough in this case..