Suspension guru's unite.....

[sevenfourate]

Hi guys. could really do with some sane advice and experience !

Having just fitted Eibach 15/20mm lowering Springs and 8mm spacers upfront along with 10mm stub-axle spacers at the rear - i'm guessing i should really get my suspension checked / adjusted (?)

****[I also have a set of 5mm front spacers here that i could fit; if that would be "better" as per recent discussions on suspension geometry].

I had the car checked-over on a Hunter Hawkeye approx 5 months ago......and they said nothing needed adjusting and all the values were spot on:



To be 100% honest; it's very unlikely i'll be going on track and i don't often push too hard on the road, although i do of course have my moments. But i would of course like to be at the optimum set-up for the car as it is......

So:

What exactly should i be looking for in terms of camber, caster and toe values now i'm lowered etc ?

Are all these values likely to have changed noticeably from bog standard, with my new "stance" ?


Thanks in advance........

 

[PAUL JA]

You will gain negative camber front and rear now you are lowered

The rear toe will have changed but unless you are prepared to shim it you are stuck with what you have

The front toe will have changed and will need resetting (I doubt it will be miles out)

 

[PAUL JA]

Reno Settings

 

[sevenfourate]

Thanks very much @PAUL JA

I'm happy to do whatever's needed. Rear shims are hardly a big deal....

What exactly are the "Reno extreme settings" ?

 

[PAUL JA]

As far as I know they are the 'best handling' settings that Reno recommend. How these differ from 'road' settings I don't know.

If you are prepared to shim the rear then maybe shim it with no toe i.e. parallel, you could go toe out but it will become more lively at the rear. You could also add a little more negative camber using camber and toe shims.

Do you have adjustable camber front top mounts ?

 

[sevenfourate]

As far as I know they are the 'best handling' settings that Reno recommend. How these differ from 'road' settings I don't know.

If you are prepared to shim the rear then maybe shim it with no toe i.e. parallel, you could go toe out but it will become more lively at the rear. You could also add a little more negative camber using camber and toe shims.

Do you have adjustable camber front top mounts ?

Superb....

So these are Track settings. Is there any detriment to using these on road ?

Gotcha on the shims. Cheers. My current rears were from Pure motorsport. I presume these are the ones your talking about effectively.

Can i double-up the shim's and add a toe / camber shim on-top of the already present 10mm spacer ? I presume the ones to adjust toe / camber are wedge shaped - but pretty thin....

I have standard 200 top-mounts.

 

[Sean197]

If I remember rightly then 'extreme' is the cup settings (road cup, not cup racer). I'm sure that's what it's called on alignment machines.

 

[sevenfourate]

If I remember rightly then 'extreme' is the cup settings (road cup, not cup racer). I'm sure that's what it's called on alignment machines.

That rings a bell now thinking back. Mine isnt a Cup.....but i remember the option coming on screen when they were searching for my cars settings.

 

[PAUL JA]

Camber and toe shims are tapered at 90 deg to each other. Using them with the 10mm spacer shouldn't be a problem just ensure the bolts used are long enough.

There is a table somewhere in the MK3 Reno cup race car manual that shows you the combinations of shims and what they achieve. This is where someone with Reno experience and bucket full of shims is useful.

If it was me I'd use Simo front top mounts (or the compbrake) and set the fronts to about 2 deg negative camber with Reno recommended toe. With the compbrake top mounts you should also be able to gain some caster.

At the rear I'd shim it for around 1.5 deg neg camber and near parallel toe (or very slight toe in).

If you do use it on track then a little more negative camber front and rear and maybe a little rear toe out.

 

[sevenfourate]

Camber and toe shims are tapered at 90 deg to each other. Using them with the 10mm spacer shouldn't be a problem just ensure the bolts used are long enough.

There is a table somewhere in the MK3 Reno cup race car manual that shows you the combinations of shims and what they achieve. This is where someone with Reno experience and bucket full of shims is useful.

If it was me I'd use Simo front top mounts (or the compbrake) and set the fronts to about 2 deg negative camber with Reno recommended toe. With the compbrake top mounts you should also be able to gain some caster.

At the rear I'd shim it for around 1.5 deg neg camber and near parallel toe (or very slight toe in).

If you do use it on track then a little more negative camber front and rear and maybe a little rear toe out.

Absolutely stonking information.

Thanks for your time and the explanation

 

[MaxiDave]

I'll be the first to admit I'm new to the Clio and how it behaves
To the above settings but I'm no stranger to setting up rally cars.

For a road car 2 degrees camber sounds like a lot, it is perfectly
Fine on a lovely flat track but when you allow for the crown on the road
(Higher in middle to let water drain off) 2 degrees can turn into
3.5 or 4 very easy especially with 1 wheel each side of the crown.
You will be running right on the edge of your tyre and be a pig to drive.

I also don't see any real benefit in camber on the back of a FWD car, a little toe in on the rear will help scrub the tyres and get heat into them
To help with grip.

More caster on the front will help with sharper turn in, I'd try
About 1.2-1.5 degree camber and 1mm toe out as a starting point.

 

[Sean197]

@sevenfourate Shuv why not go for the powerflex camber bushes and also the castor bushes on the front, that way you don't have to mess around with adjustable top mounts. The camber bushes give up to 1.5 degrees and the castor ones give up to 6 degrees of adjustment, more than enough for a road car.
And obviously being powerflex they'll have the side effect of tightening up the handling further.

 

[sevenfourate]

@sevenfourate Shuv why not go for the powerflex camber bushes and also the castor bushes on the front, that way you don't have to mess around with adjustable top mounts. The camber bushes give up to 1.5 degrees and the castor ones give 6 degrees of adjustment, more than enough for a road car.

Sounds a sensible suggestion Sean. You got personal experience of these ?

This area is all really new to me buddy - and i'm you experts plasticine to educate and mould !

So:

PFF60-801G and PFF60-802G below ?

https://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-series/products/Clio+III+Sport+197-200+(2005+-+2012)-2881/1.html

 

[Sean197]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301538469732
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222261290638

 

[Sean197]

Sounds a sensible suggestion Sean. You got personal experience of these ?

This area is all really new to me buddy - and i'm you experts plasticine to educate and mould !

So:

PFF60-801G and PFF60-802G below ?

https://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-series/products/Clio+III+Sport+197-200+(2005+-+2012)-2881/1.html

I haven't used them personally, no, but I have used powerflex bushes and can't fault them. At face value they would seem to make sense on a road/occasional track day car. They're definitely a good fit-and-forget option.

 

[sevenfourate]

I haven't used them personally, no, but I have used powerflex bushes and can't fault them. At face value they would seem to make sense on a road/occasional track day car. They're definitely a good fit-and-forget option.

Kills two birds with one stone uprating the bushes and gaining adjustability.

And i'm all for the do-it-once and do-it-properly option.

Thanks Sean.

 

[john_walker74]

Camber and toe shims are tapered at 90 deg to each other. Using them with the 10mm spacer shouldn't be a problem just ensure the bolts used are long enough.

There is a table somewhere in the MK3 Reno cup race car manual that shows you the combinations of shims and what they achieve. This is where someone with Reno experience and bucket full of shims is useful.

If it was me I'd use Simo front top mounts (or the compbrake) and set the fronts to about 2 deg negative camber with Reno recommended toe. With the compbrake top mounts you should also be able to gain some caster.

At the rear I'd shim it for around 1.5 deg neg camber and near parallel toe (or very slight toe in).

If you do use it on track then a little more negative camber front and rear and maybe a little rear toe out.

Those track settings are roughly what I am going to do this spring.

 

[PAUL JA]

Do your homework on the adjustable caster / camber bushes. I was advised by a Renault Specialist that they have experienced the bushes moving after set up. We fitted standard powerflex bushes.

As for -2 deg camber being too much for a road car, you may be right although we have run this and more on a car that see's road and track and it hasn't killed the tyres. Agreed a little toe on the rear does help to get heat into the tyre.

Adding castor at the front also means you can run less static camber (which is what is suggested above)

Might be worth checking out what superpro do for the MK3 as I believe they now do bushes with fixed additional caster

 

[Micah]

This is a very interesting thread, it's almost like witchcraft with all these settings - completely over my head!

 

[Sean197]

Fixed castor bushes
https://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tun...spension-bushes-rs197-rs200-renaultsport.html