LY200 - too loud or blow up again, taking bets!

[Yiannis197]

Ah ok wire crossing there I thought you were talking about the exhaust manifold lol

They are not actually developing anything for selling purposes etc, they are doing it one off for the guy's own car.

 

[Raptor6767]

I always found that the English horses were more like ponies while the EU ones were mustangs.

Most od the big dyno numbers were achieved in the UK compared to the rest of the world.

 

[TB Rich]

Ah ok wire crossing there I thought you were talking about the exhaust manifold lol

They are not actually developing anything for selling purposes etc, they are doing it one off for the guy's own car.

Well I don't think the exh mani is doing much for me as I'm not at the hp limits for the original, but with what's planned it'll be an essential item. I think just swapping the inlet will yield the figures I was anticipating all along.

Raptor, you have comfortably got the most hp I've seen of any car running 402's so I'd watch what you say about English horses!!
Though just imagine if the yanks tuned these, they'd all be at 250whp, or not!!!

 

[Raptor6767]

Raptor, you have comfortably got the most hp I've seen of any car running 402's so I'd watch what you say about English horses!!

210bhp is not much. IMHO.
Given in mind I'm faster than a remapped R26.

I believe that's a real number. I'm not chasing paper bhp but street seconds.

 

[TB Rich]

Nah that's about right, for some reason I thought yours was 220, just ignore me then!! Lol

 

[jacool]

Ask Simo about r3 230 real figures. His engine is basically built to 230 spec and as far as i'm aware of its not much short of claimed power (if any) considering differences between PS and HP.

 

[litchy]

Always an interested debate on power. I think if we are all honest, most people hope that if you bolt on or get a part engineered for more power, you hope that's exactly what you hope to get. It's a very expensive game otherwise. We are funny creatures, power is never important when what we've bolted on doesn't deliver it.

Also I'd be very weary of going to different tuners as each will have a different view of what you need which often is the opposite to the last person who touch it. It can lead to that revolving door, start again syndrome.

Its a great project but re-enforces what I was told by one of the best turners in this country when I bought by turd, I'd need 15k to see 30bhp. Those figures whichever way you look at it, just don't add up for me but each to their own I guess.

 

[TB Rich]

15k will see you more than 30bhp, but yep I see your point and I'm mostly splitting hairs. 30bhp done reliably like I have with rods and valves etc is not less than 10k.
ITB's, big valve head and new cams, I won't be far off 15k - but it'll be at least 240bhp, so 50bhp over a stock figure of 190bhp. If I chuck in solid lifters then it'll be 15k possibly a touch more on a personal level because I'll need to duplicate on some other stuff I've already spent out on, but for a scratch build it'd be 15k. Power is would be more than 250bhp, but rebuild schedules need applying in months rather than years I fear.

I just don't get wet over boost, shame because life would be SO much easier for me :'(

 

[Chris_200CUP]

Got it working then on the ecu?

 

[TB Rich]

Yep, couple of bits left to do but picking up weds. Should feel quite different given the ecu had obv been gimping the power over the last 6 months. It's odd because I thought more recently it felt keener to rev, which is half true, but rather than the top end improving.....its been the ecu raping my mid range lol!!

Might have a ceremonial filming of the burning of the Sagem.....haha

 

[litchy]

15k will see you more than 30bhp, but yep I see your point and I'm mostly splitting hairs. 30bhp done reliably like I have with rods and valves etc is not less than 10k.
ITB's, big valve head and new cams, I won't be far off 15k - but it'll be at least 240bhp, so 50bhp over a stock figure of 190bhp. If I chuck in solid lifters then it'll be 15k possibly a touch more on a personal level because I'll need to duplicate on some other stuff I've already spent out on, but for a scratch build it'd be 15k. Power is would be more than 250bhp, but rebuild schedules need applying in months rather than years I fear.

I just don't get wet over boost, shame because life would be SO much easier for me :'(

Crazy money either way and in some way makes me question the figures around of some NA cars. it's common sense that if 10k gets you a true 30bhp, why do people think they can make 20bhp with 2k? For me the best Clio I've ever driven was a standard one. Maybe not super fast but honest and engaging.

 

[Lewis.]

Most power figures are over inflated. And in real terms who cares so long as it's fun to drive and sounds great. ITB's all the way for me over turbo. Ok turbo may go faster but that's not always more fun. Food for thought!!

 

[TB Rich]

Crazy money either way and in some way makes me question the figures around of some NA cars. it's common sense that if 10k gets you a true 30bhp, why do people think they can make 20bhp with 2k? For me the best Clio I've ever driven was a standard one. Maybe not super fast but honest and engaging.

No as standard just too slow, needs more power for sure. But a decent NA tune keeps the engaging nature and builds on it. The trouble is with power is you get used to it what ever it's running so a turbo soon gets boring because once you're used to the speed the sound and delivery isn't captivating. A good ITB build you'll get used to the speed sure, but the noise and way it pulls and revs keeps you far more satisfied.

Most power figures are over inflated. And in real terms who cares so long as it's fun to drive and sounds great. ITB's all the way for me over turbo. Ok turbo may go faster but that's not always more fun. Food for thought!!

Agreed, as above! NA all the way

 

[Chris]

What's crazy money to one person might not be to another if they think the end product is going to be worth it..

 

[TB Rich]

Very true, I think the triumph of getting 240bhp and 185LbFt on this engine would way exceed the costs! 120bhp per litre, 92LbFt per litre - epic results and if it can be done at or under 8000rpm is mega impressive.

(just no one say the Honda word ok ****ing k20 rocking 240bhp with exhaust manifold and cam upgrades )

 

[Lewis.]

I dread to think how much my Rallye has cost me over the years but it's the best machine I've ever been in [emoji41]

 

[litchy]

I guess so. Everyone approaches projects differently and I've done both money no option on some cars and a more measured way equally. Outcome satisfying but different. The interesting thing is I'm made more mistakes when I wasn't thinking about the costs than when I had a tight budget. There were a lot of keyboard mechanics that were more than happy spending my money or tuners that used my car for development whilst I was paying for the privilege.

I'm keep a keen eye on your project as aspirationally I think it's what the ultimate Clio should be and not FI.

 

[TB Rich]

Back from another long ass day (8+ hours round trip!)

Quick verdict is the car is basically a bit crazy now! The throttle response is insane, makes you realise how gimpy the OEM setup is. The car pulls so well now and without the flat spot (again caused by the OEM crap) means it's very tractable. I know the peak isn't super high, but I'm almost sold on this torque stuff, almost - never completely

Best news is the exhaust now makes gun shot cracks! I would literally have paid the money for this aspect alone! Saw a Nimbus 197 on the M25 so had a bit of a show off moment... he seemed to like it! :lol:

Bad news is the fuel gauge isn't working, so will ring up tomorrow. Hopefully an easy fix but I hope to god I don't have to drive there again!

 

[Yiannis197]

Brilliant brilliant news. Excellent stuff Rich very happy for you. Makes you think why manufacturers use so crappy ECUs to start with when the final product can be much better? I mean sod the normal clio range but I'd like to know who signed off such throttle on a Clio sport...

Now, where are the videos??

 

[TB Rich]

Thanks, been a while getting to the point that 'phase 1' so to speak is over!! Kinda escalated over the months but chuffed with it, it's now quick, responsive and makes a great noises at both ends yet fairly quiet on the move - some witchcraft going on with the Akra!!
Might try and squeeze in a trip to Surrey Rolling Road soon to get a before and after from when it was stock.

The OEM ECU is very good at doing what it does to make a smooth driveable car (when stock) and work in all sorts of climates (temp and elevation etc) yet still passing strict emission laws. The trouble is for performance tuning is it is not conducive to doing the job properly or easily. Main issue for me was it uses the MAP signal for primary load and this is buggered once the overlap of the cams becomes too great, so need to run TPS (alpha-n) only for load. This makes it much easier and smoother to tune, and improves throttle response. I guess OEM's don't do this though because it's probably not so good with emissions and won't work as well across climates.

Yep will need to get some videos without a doubt. No kids this weekend so I think pending weather I can get something - though I ended up with no usable footage from my Combe day (but think that was down to a ****ed battery in the cam).