from fiesta thread

[Foxspeed]

I bet the next RS clio is a smaller capacity turbo/supercharged engine, its going to be the only way which car companies can meet emmissions targets / improve fuel economy whilst keeping decent performance.

there are other options -

less weight
stop-start systems
hybrid systems
cylinder deactivation systems

renault could easily loose 150kg off the 197/200 "new" platform and employ stop-start system and reduce co2 by 15-20g/km

 

[Phil]

there are other options -

less weight
stop-start systems
hybrid systems
cylinder deactivation systems

renault could easily loose 150kg off the 197/200 "new" platform and employ stop-start system and reduce co2 by 15-20g/km

They could well do, just cant see them haning on to the 2-litre NA when a smaller turbo offers same/better power, lots more torque lower down the rev range and for lower emissions. To be honest, i'd rather they didn't because I like the character of the high revving NAs but it seems to be the way that things are going.

 

[jaxx]

there are other options -

less weight
stop-start systems
hybrid systems
cylinder deactivation systems

renault could easily loose 150kg off the 197/200 "new" platform and employ stop-start system and reduce co2 by 15-20g/km

Less Weight - Well my concideration is the 197/200 is a fatty compared to the old Clios due to the EU having a firm grip of Renaults balls ensuring they make nice safe cars, and therefore have to beef them up.

The true way of making this a reality is to use lightweight composites. If (and this is a dream) they made the monocoque from Carbon Fiber it would loose 150kg quite easily, however the price would increase 100% lol

Im a true believer that future cars will get lighter and lighter as "regular" manufacturers start to produce cars from composites and plastics and phase out metals.

stop-start systems - I think this is a good idea personally, however it does potentially add some bulk to the car as its essentially a giant stepper motor between the gearbox and the engine. Which also doubles as the alternator when the engine is in use. It pains me though that its rarely found on larger and performance orientated engines.

Example.. on my last car, a Volvo T5, you can spec Stop/Start with the poxy little 1.6 diesel which is no good for nothing, yet you cant have it on the T5 (5pot turbo with 270bhp) where it would make a significant difference...

Im not one who really gives a damn about MPG, but i do begrudge "wasting" juice when im sat in traffic jams and my engines doing little more than running the climate control and playing my tunes.

Obviously CC doesnt work with stop/start if you require aircon, but one can compensate.

hybrid systems - I find this a "meh" subject, its just a way for numbskulls to think they are genuinely doing something for the environment (see the South Park episode on hybrids for a good guide!) in reality hybrids dont really help as far as im concerned. If you work it out, even the most modern Prius can only muster 50mpg on a good run, most diesels get that without trying. And they dont have the huge manufacturing implications for building them. Legend has it, a Prius creates more pollution in its production than it will create in its driven lifetime.

In short... hybrids are not the answer for emissions. It will also be another deadly factor of turning a sporty Clio into a dumb waddling piece of ****.

cylinder deactivation systems - This is a great idea, but wont work well, if at all, with a 4 cylinder engine.

It only works adequately with engines with a significant power stroke overlap such as V8's, circa some of Chryslers engines (and probably a few others by now)

Basically in 4 cylinder engine, every 2 turns or 720degrees of roatation of the crank, all 4 cylinders will fire, so thats a power stroke every 180degrees of the crank. So there is always a cylinder on the power stroke at any given position of the crank. If you have ever wondered why so many engines are 4 cylinder, this is one of the good reasons.

If you were to shut down 1 cylinder, you will have a period where no power is being produced, and it will run terrible. Im sure most people have experience a car "running on 3"

However with a V8, you have twice the cylinders, so you get a power stroke for every 90deg of the crank, with effectively one cylinder starting, one at the midpoint and one finishing the power stroke.

If you shut down half the cylinders from firing, you will still have 4 from the given 720 degrees and therefore still have one fire for every 180degrees as per a 4 cylinder, so the engine will in effect still run "smoothly"


Sorry for all that drivel (and if i went off topic) :thumbup1:

 

[Foxspeed]

Less Weight - Well my concideration is the 197/200 is a fatty compared to the old Clios due to the EU having a firm grip of Renaults balls ensuring they make nice safe cars, and therefore have to beef them up.

The true way of making this a reality is to use lightweight composites. If (and this is a dream) they made the monocoque from Carbon Fiber it would loose 150kg quite easily, however the price would increase 100% lol

Im a true believer that future cars will get lighter and lighter as "regular" manufacturers start to produce cars from composites and plastics and phase out metals.

stop-start systems - I think this is a good idea personally, however it does potentially add some bulk to the car as its essentially a giant stepper motor between the gearbox and the engine. Which also doubles as the alternator when the engine is in use. It pains me though that its rarely found on larger and performance orientated engines.

Example.. on my last car, a Volvo T5, you can spec Stop/Start with the poxy little 1.6 diesel which is no good for nothing, yet you cant have it on the T5 (5pot turbo with 270bhp) where it would make a significant difference...

Im not one who really gives a damn about MPG, but i do begrudge "wasting" juice when im sat in traffic jams and my engines doing little more than running the climate control and playing my tunes.

Obviously CC doesnt work with stop/start if you require aircon, but one can compensate.

hybrid systems - I find this a "meh" subject, its just a way for numbskulls to think they are genuinely doing something for the environment (see the South Park episode on hybrids for a good guide!) in reality hybrids dont really help as far as im concerned. If you work it out, even the most modern Prius can only muster 50mpg on a good run, most diesels get that without trying. And they dont have the huge manufacturing implications for building them. Legend has it, a Prius creates more pollution in its production than it will create in its driven lifetime.

In short... hybrids are not the answer for emissions. It will also be another deadly factor of turning a sporty Clio into a dumb waddling piece of ****.

cylinder deactivation systems - This is a great idea, but wont work well, if at all, with a 4 cylinder engine.

It only works adequately with engines with a significant power stroke overlap such as V8's, circa some of Chryslers engines (and probably a few others by now)

Basically in 4 cylinder engine, every 2 turns or 720degrees of roatation of the crank, all 4 cylinders will fire, so thats a power stroke every 180degrees of the crank. So there is always a cylinder on the power stroke at any given position of the crank. If you have ever wondered why so many engines are 4 cylinder, this is one of the good reasons.

If you were to shut down 1 cylinder, you will have a period where no power is being produced, and it will run terrible. Im sure most people have experience a car "running on 3"

However with a V8, you have twice the cylinders, so you get a power stroke for every 90deg of the crank, with effectively one cylinder starting, one at the midpoint and one finishing the power stroke.

If you shut down half the cylinders from firing, you will still have 4 from the given 720 degrees and therefore still have one fire for every 180degrees as per a 4 cylinder, so the engine will in effect still run "smoothly"


Sorry for all that drivel (and if i went off topic) :thumbup1:

ha ha ! a very good reply

i would say over weight loss that new alloy steels are more cost effective than composites - ford and mazda have used it to good effect on the 2 and fiesta platforms

cylinder deactivation on a 4-cylinder is not "ideal" but is an "option"

hybrid - this cannot be ignored and will be in some cases a stepping stone to full electric or fuel cell vehicles - it does after all use the lost energy from slowing down etc to provide additional power on demand

stop/start - again will be a "must have" on nearly all future cars - easier to engineer on new designs and a quick win on co2

so future clio 197/200 etc -

will be

lighter
stop/start
possible hybrid application

but i will stick my neck out and say the 2.0n/a engine stays with possibility of revving even higher :thumbup:

back on subject - do like the new fiesta - and an st or rs will look great

 

[Paul]

Hate to be the bearer of REALLY bad news but nobody is toting the idea of no petrol at all. The Renault Zoe (all electric) car is due to go into produciton next year and there are several other manufacturers expected to do the same! Once they have got the hang of it I can see it being rolled out across the range!

This could lead to the 4th or 5th Gen Clio being a real greeny and completely devoid of hydrocarbons! God knows how they would do a sport version of it!

Im not saying it is going to be happening any time soon but im worried that it will be coming soon! :'(

 

[jaxx]

i would say over weight loss that new alloy steels are more cost effective than composites - ford and mazda have used it to good effect on the 2 and fiesta platforms

Oh without doubt, alloys are cheaper as theyre a prooven technology and have been used in mass production for cars for decades.

However the technology is there for composites and high strength polymers... its just they are still currently expensive!

Take everyones favourite material... Carbon Fiber... originally developed for the space program and space shuttle. Then made its way into aircraft, in which case we now have airplanes paritally made from it (the Boeing Dreamliner makes conciderable use of composites).

Then it filtered to motorsport, where we find F1 cars made with a majority of CF, then it made it to super car body panels, circa the Ferrari F40, followed by the McLaren SLR and Pagani Zonda F being completely made from CF, including the monocoque.

And of course we have the bragging rights and points of replacing production car panels with CF...

Trust me, it wont be long before your sub 10k shopping car will be made of these fancy materials, yet still be strong and safe

Remember your wings on your car are plastic, something that retards will laugh about... but to me, cheap and very easy to manufacture, so therefore cheap if you bust one

Hate to be the bearer of REALLY bad news but nobody is toting the idea of no petrol at all. The Renault Zoe (all electric) car is due to go into produciton next year and there are several other manufacturers expected to do the same! Once they have got the hang of it I can see it being rolled out across the range!

This could lead to the 4th or 5th Gen Clio being a real greeny and completely devoid of hydrocarbons! God knows how they would do a sport version of it!

Im not saying it is going to be happening any time soon but im worried that it will be coming soon! :'(

Seriously when they announce the Zoe for sale, im having one

Not because im a vegetable scoffing, tree hugging hippy. But because it looks like the cars i used to draw in the back of my maths book at school.

To me the next 10 years will see the "cars of our future" becoming a reality, and im deadly excited

Ok so the Zoe has an expected range of 150miles or something. To be honest, thats brillaint for me, as my daily commute is 30miles, so that is more than ample. And by todays prices it will cost about £4-£6 to fill the "tank" giving a millage distance of about 300miles. Road tax will zero and theres very few mechanical parts to service.

Gonna be a golden age and i seriously cannot wait for the first true electric sports car available to the general public. Electric motor = nearly instantaneous torque curve

And id keep my petrol motors for the weekend.

As Jay Leno once said... the horse was once our transport... when the internal combustion was invented, did the horse just die off? No, its now a point of fun, sport and recreation. The electric era of motoring will produce the same results. Well have clean cheap and efficient daily motoring, and our petrol cars for a blat round the backroads Obviously this will also prolong the existance of fossil fuels

 

[Paul]

Seriously when they announce the Zoe for sale, im having one

Not because im a vegetable scoffing, tree hugging hippy. But because it looks like the cars i used to draw in the back of my maths book at school.

To me the next 10 years will see the "cars of our future" becoming a reality, and im deadly excited

Ok so the Zoe has an expected range of 150miles or something. To be honest, thats brillaint for me, as my daily commute is 30miles, so that is more than ample. And by todays prices it will cost about £4-£6 to fill the "tank" giving a millage distance of about 300miles. Road tax will zero and theres very few mechanical parts to service.

Gonna be a golden age and i seriously cannot wait for the first true electric sports car available to the general public. Electric motor = nearly instantaneous torque curve

And id keep my petrol motors for the weekend.

As Jay Leno once said... the horse was once our transport... when the internal combustion was invented, did the horse just die off? No, its now a point of fun, sport and recreation. The electric era of motoring will produce the same results. Well have clean cheap and efficient daily motoring, and our petrol cars for a blat round the backroads Obviously this will also prolong the existance of fossil fuels

Lol I can get on board with that! Like you say it is something that used to be the wildest fantasy but its an amazing concept at the moment and Im pretty certain it wont be long until it becomes reality.

Like you say the instant power delivery is going to be pretty cool but not as good as the tuning potential. Rather than going to your local garage for a remap, just call up your local sparky - rewire it, drop a bigger motor in and you are flying lol! :tongue_smilie:

Yeah I watched that episode of TG too lol, Leno has a very good point! Another comedian to make a good point was Al Murray - Invention is born out of necessity. When it come to the point of running out of oil, there will be a synthetic substitute. The current problem is that R&D is being spent on efficiency rather than alternatives. Once that is changed and billions are being poured into zero emission mass transport the speed that prices fall and it becomes a viable solution will be amazing!

Im gonna start a new thread lol! :001_rolleyes: