Decided to get last years dyno run confirmed

[MikeH]

Put my graphs on my hello when I first joined but the graphs looked a bit ropey, the final result was guesstimated at 208-210bhp. Heres my updated graph from todays runs on a different dyno.....

I didnt believe the negative hype on induction kits and these days I definitely dont my figures upon remap wouldnt be this good.....

Premap figure 189bhp
Latest figure 209.87bhp

Full spec
Milltek cat back and sports cat
K&N Apollo
Viezu technology remap

I havent yet tried my track day map and my runs today were all based on me running with standard unleaded fuel.

I wish I had recorded it on video it sounds awesome, will do next time he goes on the dyno when I try my trackday map.

If anyone wants any further info please feel free to ask
:drool:

 

[richandgem]

Do u have an induction kit off result and an induction kit on result?

I ask as I'd be very interested to see the result, I tried one on my 182 and it lost me 8bhp and nearly 20flb (rolling road proven btw)

 

[Ed...]

Induction kits restrict air to make noise. Fact. 209 @ fly..... Is very.. lets say loose. If its on same dyno its still not a true figure. if i run 231 ish at fly with cams, headwork, valves, seats, 480 cc injectors, forged internals, ktec cat back, 100 cell cat to name just a few id love to see what my car would turn out on that dyno :/

 

[MikeH]

Do u have an induction kit off result and an induction kit on result?

I ask as I'd be very interested to see the result, I tried one on my 182 and it lost me 8bhp and nearly 20flb (rolling road proven btw)

Unfortunately not, my plan was always that the mods would be in two steps if you like 1. to allow the engine to breathe more easily and 2. to get the ecu to take advantage of the extra 'breathing room'.

I think most people lose bhp because they dont get the ecu adapted to take account of the extra air available

 

[MikeH]

Induction kits restrict air to make noise. Fact. 209 @ fly..... Is very.. lets say loose. If its on same dyno its still not a true figure. if i run 231 ish at fly with cams, headwork, valves, seats, 480 cc injectors, forged internals, ktec cat back, 100 cell cat to name just a few id love to see what my car would turn out on that dyno :/

Two different dynos mate one in bromsgrove, one in manchester.

 

[ryan197]

people do take into account induction kits and they struggle to gain power when mapped. Even the specialist have told us to chuck inductive kits as they are rubbish and not tested properly. That k&n appollo is more restricted than the standard set up, goin from standard two inlet box to a single inlet induction. And from the mods youve listed 20bhp gain sounds very optimicsic.

 

[MikeH]

people do take into account induction kits and they struggle to gain power when mapped. Even the specialist have told us to chuck inductive kits as they are rubbish and not tested properly. That k&n appollo is more restricted than the standard set up, goin from standard two inlet box to a single inlet induction. And from the mods youve listed 20bhp gain sounds very optimicsic.

Could well be optimistic, but I can only go off the figures that are put in front of me.
Celtic tuning quote possible increases of 13bhp
RS tuning 6bhp
Ktec 7-10bhp
Viezu 15bhp
FR-R 15bhp

my theory would be that my car had lost power with the induction but recouped its losses with the remap plus a bhp increase??? from the remap

 

[daz]

All quoted figures are generally on the generous side. RS Tuning will be the most realistic with 6bhp gains.

I had my 182 RR'd at Trax a couple of years ago...191bhp it read with a couple of easy mods.

I then had it Schrick cammed and custom mapped to suit and got it 'up' to 182bhp on RS Tuning's rollers.

The original RR at Trax was ~20bhp on the generous side in my opinion!

 

[MikeH]

As you say they could well be generous readings, just seems a bit strange that two completely different RRs gave very similar figures. The ones I used were Viezus own originally then Awesome GTIs today. Ive got a couple of other RRs nearby I'll see waht they come up with over the next couple of weeks

 

[Ed...]

I dont know mate just seems very high for small mods

 

[MikeH]

Your probably right, but from what I've heard Viezu are the dogs bits at remapping, they run teaching classes in ecu mapping as well

 

[ryan197]

to be honest mate, never heard of them on the renault circuit. But roller can be manipulated to satisfy custumer. But car never gain what tuners say. If they say throughout the rev range then yes, i gain 15bhp, 5bhp of that peak power. The only way u would gain 20bhp peak would be with what you got, standard airbox and cams. Where you from mate, as i see you mentioned bromsgrove, not far from me. You should come on the next rolling road day.

 

[MikeH]

From Merseyside matey, drove to Viezu in Bromsgrove for them to do the remap on their dyno, depending on if your rr day is closer I would probably give him a run down anyway. The only other difference with my 197 is that it is a parallel import, I dont know if that would make any difference. As I said i'll try a couple of other RRs nearby as well ive got one in widnes and one in warrington I can try

 

[MikeH]

people do take into account induction kits and they struggle to gain power when mapped. Even the specialist have told us to chuck inductive kits as they are rubbish and not tested properly. That k&n appollo is more restricted than the standard set up, goin from standard two inlet box to a single inlet induction. And from the mods youve listed 20bhp gain sounds very optimicsic.

In theory 2 inlets are better than 1, but in this case its like saying you can get more air in your lungs through your nostrils than your fully open mouth.

Surface area calcs
standard box inlets are 1x5.2cm = 21.23cm2 and 1x6.6cm (at widest on the oval shape) = 34.2cm2 total surface area to let air in box = 55.4cm2

apollo box inlet
1x10cm = 78.5cm2

If you want we can put the figures into a fluid dynamics calculator to see which will give the largest volumetric flowrate to feed the engine with air for combustion.

The trick with the apollo is to not use the supplied cold air feed

 

[ken182]

you could have all the air in the world going to an engine but if its hot air or doesnt flow right due to a restrictive feed then its pointless.

looking at the standard set up its very well designed. the feed is fairly direct from the front grill and stays away from the hot exhaust.

if it works why change it?

 

[BenW]

There's so much more to an air intake than size of the inlet.

For example you need to make sure you have good turbulence in the flow to ensure good mixing with the fuel and therefore good combustion.

As we all know, intake temperatures are also very important due to the changes in air density with temperature, air coming through the standard intake will be cooler than almost any open cone filter (Unless you have very good shielding and cold air feeds, effectively replicating the standard intake).

There are more things to consider, but just making the point that intake area is just one of many factors in a good intake

 

[richandgem]

There is only one way to measure power at the fly accurately, and thats to actually measure it at the fly.

All re figures are going to be different, some more exaggerated than others, on the thing rr are good for is comparison of mods before and after. But you really need to use the same rr for this. I know catcams gave me a 10bhp increase at peak power because it was on the rr @TDF before and after