Advise for spirited drives.

[joehodges154]

Hi all,

I enjoy the odd hoon every now and then in my 200, however almost every time in the last 2 weeks I have always had a close call with another car or I drift wide on a tighter country lane. I am not trying to dob myself in as a pr*ck on the road, but I wanna enjoy my car properly and drive like a bit of a nob(am only 19). Does anyone have any advice to a young driver on how to drive fast safely? Or any other good information that could help? Summer is coming up so longer days, more evening drives etc etc.

Cheers, Joe.

 

[suj]

Yes, get on a trackday.

As weather gets better and as rules of lockdown are easing the roads are going to be get busier, whether it's cars or bikes.

Get onto a trackday, you'll not only learn a lot about your car, you'll quickly learn a lot about yourself, you can push your car safely, you can pay for tuition it'll be the best money you'll spend.

Look for novice days, as you'll have people who are not as angry if you are slowing them up.

Driving on the roads is fun, but you don't know what is around that blind corner, a cyclist, a deer, a broken down car etc.

 

[burrellbloke]

Definitely book up a track day. You are encouraged to drive close to your limits and you can do it without the worry of not knowing what is round the corner on the other side of the road.

I have only managed do to one track day since getting my Clio but will book some more for this year.

 

[RSRowe]

I enjoy how you’ve posted here.... But we both know you’ll not listen to what a group of strangers tell you on the internet

If you’re drifting wide, or running wide, you’re either going too fast or can’t drive.

 

[joehodges154]

Yes, get on a trackday.

As weather gets better and as rules of lockdown are easing the roads are going to be get busier, whether it's cars or bikes.

Get onto a trackday, you'll not only learn a lot about your car, you'll quickly learn a lot about yourself, you can push your car safely, you can pay for tuition it'll be the best money you'll spend.

Look for novice days, as you'll have people who are not as angry if you are slowing them up.

Driving on the roads is fun, but you don't know what is around that blind corner, a cyclist, a deer, a broken down car etc.

Definitely book up a track day. You are encouraged to drive close to your limits and you can do it without the worry of not knowing what is round the corner on the other side of the road.

I have only managed do to one track day since getting my Clio but will book some more for this year.

Would you recommend track day insurance? Getting an instructor for a few laps? I'm from Surrey so not sure what is the closest track.

I enjoy how you’ve posted here.... But we both know you’ll not listen to what a group of strangers tell you on the internet

If you’re drifting wide, or running wide, you’re either going too fast or can’t drive.

If I wasn't going to listen I wouldn't have asked mate, trying to better my driving so came onto here to ask some other enthusiasts for advice. This is my second car and by a long way the quickest so still getting used to the power. I think me not being able to drive it properly may have something to do with it, hence me asking.

 

[Big Ben]

I admire your honesty Joe but possibly a bit misplaced mate. Near misses and running wide is scary shit and the result is too much speed usually. These cars handle great but do have their limits.

 

[joehodges154]

I admire your honesty Joe but possibly a bit misplaced mate. Near misses and running wide is scary shit and the result is too much speed usually. These cars handle great but do have their limits.

It was scary that's why I made the post. So just tone it down a little? They're not like near head on collisions or anything proper horrendous, I do feel like I am just digging myself to look like a right pr*ck now.

 

[Sean197]

Book tuition at a trackday, or to go the extra yard book an advanced driving course.
Speaking from experience, you really don't want to be finding out your car's limits, nor indeed your limits as a driver, on a public road. The possible consequences are just not worth it.
So many times when I was your your age (driving a 205 gti and an r5 gtt) I had 'fucking hell' moments where things could have ended very badly. Now as an experienced driver (20+ years) I'm the first to admit I still enjoy getting the foot down and having a 'spirited' drive, but it's within the limits of myself and the car, and I'm far more circumspect when it comes to the time, place and road conditions etc.

 

[joehodges154]

Book tuition at a trackday, or to go the extra yard book an advanced driving course.
Speaking from experience, you really don't want to be finding out your car's limits, nor indeed your limits as a driver, on a public road. The possible consequences are just not worth it.
So many times when I was your your age (driving a 205 gti and an r5 gtt) I had 'fucking hell' moments where things could have ended very badly. Now as an experienced driver (20+ years) I'm the first to admit I still enjoy getting the foot down and having a 'spirited' drive, but it's within the limits of myself and the car, and I'm far more circumspect when it comes to the time, place and road conditions etc.

Thanks mate.

 

[suj]

Book tuition at a trackday, or to go the extra yard book an advanced driving course.
Speaking from experience, you really don't want to be finding out your car's limits, nor indeed your limits as a driver, on a public road. The possible consequences are just not worth it.
So many times when I was your your age (driving a 205 gti and an r5 gtt) I had 'fucking hell' moments where things could have ended very badly. Now as an experienced driver (20+ years) I'm the first to admit I still enjoy getting the foot down and having a 'spirited' drive, but it's within the limits of myself and the car, and I'm far more circumspect when it comes to the time, place and road conditions etc.

What Sean said, I remember my first big scary moment on the roads, it was my 200sx, old school turbo coming on boost and back end kicking out on a country road when on a road trip, if I hadn't done trackdays and learnt my limits on track, I'd have been in a hedge or worse.
As you get older you look back and think "I was stupid back then"

Good on you asking, like I said earlier, get on a trackday, it will not only help you get it out your system in a safe way, you'll learn a lot on the way.

Also start making a pot for trackday addiction, you'll be poor in no time

 

[burrellbloke]

I did a track day at Lydden Hill in Kent. The day was split in to 6 sessions of about 15 minutes each. There were three groups: novice, intermediate and advanced. It was perfect for me. Most of the novice drivers were not novices but they had cars that were either proper stripped out track cars, or fast road cars.

The sessions were an excellent way for me to start as it meant that I could build up confidence after each session, but not stay out on the track too long to cause any real wear and tear on the car by boiling the brakes or shredding the tyres.

When I did the track day there was no tuition available due to COVID - but if an instructor had been available I would have booked a session.

Lydden Hill have got another session track day on 22nd May 2021. It is about £130 for the day - it is cheap as the track is not as nice as somewhere like Cadwell or Oulton. It is a short circuit that is probably suited to a car like a Clio rather than a car that has more straight-line power/speed.

Trackday insurance was £115 when I went. @EthanMenace came with me on the same track day. He was 19 when we went and his track day insurance was the same price of £115.

 

[joehodges154]

What Sean said, I remember my first big scary moment on the roads, it was my 200sx, old school turbo coming on boost and back end kicking out on a country road when on a road trip, if I hadn't done trackdays and learnt my limits on track, I'd have been in a hedge or worse.
As you get older you look back and think "I was stupid back then"

Good on you asking, like I said earlier, get on a trackday, it will not only help you get it out your system in a safe way, you'll learn a lot on the way.

Also start making a pot for trackday addiction, you'll be poor in no time

Cheers Suj, I'd rather ask and learn than keep being silly on the roads. Honestly, as bad as it sounds, I used to view trackdays as a complete waste of money as it was only a bit of cornered off tarmac which you could race around on, same as a normal A/B road just with other people, which is so naive of myself as it is very dangerous, as I'm sure many many people have found out, but after reading many a thread on here, has very much opened my eyes, especially the footage on YouTube.

I did a track day at Lydden Hill in Kent. The day was split in to 6 sessions of about 15 minutes each. There were three groups: novice, intermediate and advanced. It was perfect for me. Most of the novice drivers were not novices but they had cars that were either proper stripped out track cars, or fast road cars.

The sessions were an excellent way for me to start as it meant that I could build up confidence after each session, but not stay out on the track too long to cause any real wear and tear on the car by boiling the brakes or shredding the tyres.

When I did the track day there was no tuition available due to COVID - but if an instructor had been available I would have booked a session.

Lydden Hill have got another session track day on 22nd May 2021. It is about £130 for the day - it is cheap as the track is not as nice as somewhere like Cadwell or Oulton. It is a short circuit that is probably suited to a car like a Clio rather than a car that has more straight-line power/speed.

Trackday insurance was £115 when I went. @EthanMenace came with me on the same track day. He was 19 when we went and his track day insurance was the same price of £115.

That sounds perfect for a first outing, will definitely look into that, I'd love a tuition though, as there are a few things I am not sure on, like lift-off over/under steer? (I think its called) Watched a chap on YouTube (LBTV) bin his car going over a hill as he lifted off the throttle. In my eyes, I would need someone to sit with me for a few laps to A) calm my nerves and B) how to get the best out of the car safely.

 

[suj]

Cheers Suj, I'd rather ask and learn than keep being silly on the roads. Honestly, as bad as it sounds, I used to view trackdays as a complete waste of money as it was only a bit of cornered off tarmac which you could race around on, same as a normal A/B road just with other people, which is so naive of myself as it is very dangerous, as I'm sure many many people have found out, but after reading many a thread on here, has very much opened my eyes, especially the footage on YouTube.

That sounds perfect for a first outing, will definitely look into that, I'd love a tuition though, as there are a few things I am not sure on, like lift-off over/under steer? (I think its called) Watched a chap on YouTube (LBTV) bin his car going over a hill as he lifted off the throttle. In my eyes, I would need someone to sit with me for a few laps to A) calm my nerves and B) how to get the best out of the car safely.

Don't worry too much about him, he's a bit of a hero when driving. Drive in your limits, slowly pushing them.
You're not racing others or yourself to a point, it's not a video game.
Go out and have fun, that is what it's all about.

You do not need to buy shitloads of mods to make your car get 0.01secs faster, you can do it of course, but like anything evolve and add to it.

You'll end up going and finding out your road tyres and pads are not up to the job...so you upgrade them.
Next trackday now your suspension is too soft for the grippier tyres and better brakes...you then look at suspension.

It's too easy to go on forums and see a full on track car and think you need to have all that to have fun...not true at all, it's actually the opposite, as that narrows your point of limits, semi slick tyres have less margin of error, so if you push too hard they can fall off quicker etc.

I'd say get onto a novice day and go have fun, listen to the drivers briefing (as each track and trackday company has different rules) and go have fun.

 

[burrellbloke]

Just go out and enjoy yourself on track. You won’t get any prizes for the fastest lap but you might get some good GoPro footage to show your mates. I know nothing about the technical parts of driving but I do know that I like going round tracks as fast as I can.

 

[joehodges154]

Don't worry too much about him, he's a bit of a hero when driving. Drive in your limits, slowly pushing them.
You're not racing others or yourself to a point, it's not a video game.
Go out and have fun, that is what it's all about.

You do not need to buy shitloads of mods to make your car get 0.01secs faster, you can do it of course, but like anything evolve and add to it.

You'll end up going and finding out your road tyres and pads are not up to the job...so you upgrade them.
Next trackday now your suspension is too soft for the grippier tyres and better brakes...you then look at suspension.

It's too easy to go on forums and see a full on track car and think you need to have all that to have fun...not true at all, it's actually the opposite, as that narrows your point of limits, semi slick tyres have less margin of error, so if you push too hard they can fall off quicker etc.

I'd say get onto a novice day and go have fun, listen to the drivers briefing (as each track and trackday company has different rules) and go have fun.

Speak wise words, thank you very much for all that.

 

[Beany]

Speaking from experience yes you should hone your skills & learn more about your car on track rather than on the road, speaking from experience I was foolish like you and it ended up wrong involving another a car!

once you do one you’ll be hooked! They’re a great day and can push the car so much more safely.

but echo the above regarding tuition!

 

[EthanMenace]

Being the same age as you I would definitely agree with what everyone else has said so far, doing the track day with @burrellbloke was really good and lets you test your limits in a way safer place than on the roads.
By all means enjoy the country roads but obviously you just need to be cautious about what's around the corner

 

[R20BTG]

There's a couple of words that I'll throw in here that are going to be really difficult for a 19 year old to digest. I know I would have struggled. Those two words are perception and consequence.

Perception is important because what you do in your car and how you feel behind the wheel is not what others external to you perceive. You should have in the back of your mind how your behaviour is being perceived by others who witness it. A hatchback with a loud exhaust driven by a young lad is automatically going to be viewed negatively by the general public, despite you perhaps not even doing anything wrong. The deck is already stacked against you. What you need to do is avoid behaviour that will cause that deck to come crashing down on you.

There was a really powerful thread on Pistonheads a few years ago by a guy who was out for a spirited drive with his mates, got it a bit wrong and span across the road and stalled sideways in the oncoming lane. A few seconds later a biker came over a crest or around a bend from the other direction and hit his static car. The biker suffered very serious injuries. The car driver was found guilty of dangerous driving and was given a jail sentence. I recall there being circumstantial witnesses who testified to the quality (or lack thereof) of the driving having seen the group of friends driving loud cars earlier in the day, overtaking people etc. Perception played a very large part in the outcome of that incident.

Consequence is something that is difficult to understand at your age, but you have your whole life ahead of you. The last thing you want at this stage in your life is to cock up your life path because of a stupid decision you make as a teenager. I'm now married, have kids, own a company, employ lots of people and have legal responsibilities as a Company Director. Because of that, I have a nice house, lots of toys and have a nice quality of life that I am appreciative of every day. These are the things that go through my mind when I'm tempted to go out for a blast. Doing something stupid when I was younger would have jeopardised those things for sure. Doing something stupid now would have those nice things taken away from me and would have a huge negative impact on my friends and family. Do you want to be able to travel freely? If so having a criminal record might hinder that. Can you live with the guilt of hurting someone accidentally for your own pleasure? Can you afford fines? Can you deal with a custodial sentence? How would your family feel? Who is relying on you for support? Where do your family and friends want you to end up? This is a lot to think of as a teenager but the sooner you can start thinking on this level the better person you will become, and the less likely you are to cock something up.

In summary, turn your public road driving into a relaxing drive with someone you care about, with your favourite song on the radio, admiring the sights and smells of your surroundings. Turn track days into the solution to your go-faster urges. Don't mix the two.

 

[burrellbloke]

This thread has got very deep, but sage words from @IainMac to anyone who ever thinks of taking a risk on the roads. @joehodges154 this is not directed at you.

I spend my working days defending clients in the criminal courts and a lot of cases involving a crash or bad driving end up in the Crown Court for dangerous driving, or variations of dangerous driving. I have seen some messy cases where the consequences were completely unintended but someone was held responsible for either going too fast or just driving well below the standard of the reasonable driver (it is a pretty high standard that most drivers fail to meet on a day to day basis). Some defendants are not sent to prison, but even they get lengthy driving disqualifications and cannot drive until they have taken an extended driving test. Then of course it is simply too expensive for them to get insurance.

I will be the first to admit that I enjoy a blast in a car, but, I will not take real risks or put other road users in danger.

 

[Addison]

Iain couldn't have put it any better so I won't drag the bush around. But on the terms of consequence I'll add a little word of advice as it's invaluable.

I'm 25 (just about) now, when I was your age I was the same; drove fast, beyond my means/the cars. It's good fun until something happens and one day it will. Thankfully mine wasn't too serious although, it did affect me.

I was done for speeding, clear road etc (but that's no excuse). I got done, 3 points. Doesn't sound bad, but when it came to renewing the car the next year prices were around 6k more expensive for the year... I was forced to sell my car and buy something I really didn't want. A lot of time and money put into a car I loved which I was forced to sell for a major loss, heartbroken.

Obviously, I no longer drive like that now and know my limits especially on the road, but just consider it next time you decide to put your foot down. It's very easy to loose a lot in the click of a finger.