Spongy Brakes

[Steve S]

My brakes have felt somewhat 'spongy' for a while now so I assumed it needed new pads or fluid. Car went in for service about 3 weeks ago and both discs and pads were fine so obviously the fluid (or at least I thought).

Just had the fluid changed today and it hasn't made hardly any difference....which is a bit concerning to say the least!

Anyone have a similar experience or have an idea as to what it could be? Could it be Renault not checking properly when it was serviced?

If I sit stationary and push the pedal hard it will travel all the way down...

Cheers

 

[gaz]

Servo problem?

 

[Foxspeed]

try the brakes with the engine off - pump the pedal several times and it should go hard/solid with very little travel (you will hear a slight his from the pedal area this is normal and will stop when the pedal goes hard)

once hard then stand on the pedal and see if it sinks...

if it doesnt then theres no fluid loss/master cylinder leak

whilst still pressed start the engine the pedal should sink down slightly - this shows the servo is working

have the brakes been checked lately - could be seized pads or a faulty rear caliper piston - if they havent been stripped/cleaned/lubed get that done the front pads are really bad for seizing in the caliper and giving a poor pedal

other fault could be abs actuator - but that usually puts a warning light on

 

[Richy_Boy]

Give the new fluid a few days. In the past, when doing DIY changes on my old cars, the brakes always felt a little spongy for a few days then just sorted themselves out.

What fluid did you go for? I used ATE Super Blue last time around and it was awesome stuff!

Rich

 

[Steve S]

try the brakes with the engine off - pump the pedal several times and it should go hard/solid with very little travel (you will hear a slight his from the pedal area this is normal and will stop when the pedal goes hard)

once hard then stand on the pedal and see if it sinks...

if it doesnt then theres no fluid loss/master cylinder leak

whilst still pressed start the engine the pedal should sink down slightly - this shows the servo is working

have the brakes been checked lately - could be seized pads or a faulty rear caliper piston - if they havent been stripped/cleaned/lubed get that done the front pads are really bad for seizing in the caliper and giving a poor pedal

other fault could be abs actuator - but that usually puts a warning light on

Thanks Fox I'll have a go at this.

Well the car was serviced and MOTd at Renault 3 weeks ago so I hope they would have checked the brakes then! They gave me measurements for the pads and discs and said they were all fine....maybe it was wrong to take their word for it.

I'll have a play in a minute and check against what you've said. Thanks again.

 

[Foxspeed]

Thanks Fox I'll have a go at this.

Well the car was serviced and MOTd at Renault 3 weeks ago so I hope they would have checked the brakes then! They gave me measurements for the pads and discs and said they were all fine....maybe it was wrong to take their word for it.

I'll have a play in a minute and check against what you've said. Thanks again.

you can "check" and measure the brakes without doing anything to them - they wont have touched them as such ie removed and checked!!

 

[Steve S]

you can "check" and measure the brakes without doing anything to them - they wont have touched them as such ie removed and checked!!

ah ok just me being naive then...

Ok so just been and done what you recommended.

Pedal does go firm when pumped without ignition on. When I then stand on it there is some pedal travel but but then feels hard/does not sink as far as when igintion is on.

Pedal does sink when ignition turned on.

How difficult is it to strip and clean pads? I've never done this before so I'd have to learn as I was doing it. I'm always nervous about doing this sort of stuff myself lol - diy is not my forte.

May be a daft question but I presume if the pads are seized I'll need a new set?

 

[Richy_Boy]

May be a daft question but I presume if the pads are seized I'll need a new set?

The pads don't seize as such.. but they seize into the caliper - so stop moving/sliding as they should. If you can get the pins out, then just remove the pads, clean them up with a wire brush (and the caliper where the pads sit) and reassemble. Personally, I'd smother the back of the pad in copper grease to reduce the risk of squeal - but that's up to you. I'd also copper grease where the pads slide in the caliper and the pins (assuming they can be reused).

I like copper grease though

Rich

 

[Roy]

Don't forget the pins they some times seize so you will need some new ones before you remove them or you will be in the ****

 

[Foxspeed]

ah ok just me being naive then...

Ok so just been and done what you recommended.

Pedal does go firm when pumped without ignition on. When I then stand on it there is some pedal travel but but then feels hard/does not sink as far as when igintion is on.

Pedal does sink when ignition turned on.

How difficult is it to strip and clean pads? I've never done this before so I'd have to learn as I was doing it. I'm always nervous about doing this sort of stuff myself lol - diy is not my forte.

May be a daft question but I presume if the pads are seized I'll need a new set?

there is a "how to" on here but if your not confident or sure then dont do it
take it to specialist or dealer to be done

as for the pedal feel who did the fluid change.....did they do both bleed points on the front brake calipers?

if you have the pads removed ask them to deglaze the pads ie rough up the braking surface of the pads

 

[Steve S]

No idea if they did both bleed points or not - I'm going back to the place I had it done for two new front tyres tomorrow so I'll ask then.

I've booked in with Mick from Diamond Motors to strip and clean my brakes. Quoted a decent price and he's coming to my house next Thursday to do it.

@ Roy good shout on the pins, I'll ask him if he's got any in stock to bring with him just in case....if not I presume I'll just have to see if they're seized and then order the parts prior to going any further.....wouldn't surprise me if they were tbh. :sleep:

 

[Foxspeed]

No idea if they did both bleed points or not - I'm going back to the place I had it done for two new front tyres tomorrow so I'll ask then.

I've booked in with Mick from Diamond Motors to strip and clean my brakes. Quoted a decent price and he's coming to my house next Thursday to do it.

@ Roy good shout on the pins, I'll ask him if he's got any in stock to bring with him just in case....if not I presume I'll just have to see if they're seized and then order the parts prior to going any further.....wouldn't surprise me if they were tbh. :sleep:

make sure its front and rears are done!

 

[Steve S]

make sure its front and rears are done!

Will do, thanks for the help everyone! :jase:

I'll update once the work has been done and we'll see if it sorts it!

 

[Steve S]

The pins were indeed seized - Mick's coming back on Monday with a set in tow. :thumbdown: Typical.

Over the last 6 weeks the car has had:

Service & MOT £250
2 new tyres £150
Brake fluid change and wheel alignment £70
Job next week to clean up brakes and new pins £100.

lol fooks sake. Not to mention I renewed my insurance at the end of April...gotta laugh really.

 

[Foxspeed]

The pins were indeed seized - Mick's coming back on Monday with a set in tow. :thumbdown: Typical.

Over the last 6 weeks the car has had:

Service & MOT £250
2 new tyres £150
Brake fluid change and wheel alignment £70
Job next week to clean up brakes and new pins £100.

lol fooks sake. Not to mention I renewed my insurance at the end of April...gotta laugh really.

its never cheap

as for the brake pins - i always say that the 197/200 need a yearly brake service - the pins will then never sieze in

tried the pedal on mine at the weekend and with the engine running you can press it a long way down!

 

[Steve S]

Finally got this sorted - had new pads and pins fitted by Mick at Diamond Motors. He's a top bloke, knows his stuff and did a good job!

When one the the fronts was removed the friction material literally crumbled off! Pads were seized in and pins were seized.

The problem is now sorted and brakes are spot on!

If anyone doesn't check their brakes regularly then get it done ASAP as it could save you a major headache when you come to clean them up.

Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions!

 

[GrumpyTwig]

It's amazing what a new set of pads can do, mine were shot as one pad had somehow worn to 2mm and the rest 4mm.
Driving buttertubs with those was.... interesting.

stripped and cleaned them and fitted some DS2500 and now it's like hititng a wall. I can't wait till my next trackday to actually see how quick it slows down as it's dangerous to try it on the roads!!

 

[Foxspeed]

Finally got this sorted - had new pads and pins fitted by Mick at Diamond Motors. He's a top bloke, knows his stuff and did a good job!

When one the the fronts was removed the friction material literally crumbled off! Pads were seized in and pins were seized.

The problem is now sorted and brakes are spot on!

If anyone doesn't check their brakes regularly then get it done ASAP as it could save you a major headache when you come to clean them up.

Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions!

glad its sorted