Problem changing gear

[d7reu]

I recently purchased a Clio 197 R27 and the car is mint. However I noticed one problem. When changing gear at high rpm, the gearbox just doesn't want to get into gear (when changing gear fast). Gets into gear fine when driving normally. Synchros are perfect and only happens when driving it hard.

Could it be:
Engine or Gearbox mount
Gear linkage adjustment
bushes
gearbox or clutch

 

[turkie172]

I've had the same thing for the past 5 years I am of the opinion that its my clutch not doing it's job fully there is no crunches it's just not ready to go into gear but I have been driving by taking the the foot completely off the throttle when changing gear I have a spare gearbox but I might just change the clutch and see as I prefer to have the original box fully rebuilt the 024 gearbox that I have is supposed to be good but we have all heard that before but this was from a running car. I think cliosport-carl had a similar problem after a Donnington track day a leaking slave cylinder and a falling apart pressure plate. There is some weeping on the bottom of the bell of the gearbox so I will not know until I'm there so I want to have everything at hand when I do. Or I might put an endoscope through the flywheel sensor hole and have a quick look.

 

[d7reu]

Let me know how you get on. My pedal does feel a bit weird.

 

[DS197]

Could be any of the following which you've already mentioned (not exhaustive):

- Worn engine/gearbox mounts
- Old brake fluid in the clutch system
- Worn out/failing slave cylinder
- Synchros starting to fail

These boxes weren't meant for cars like the Clio where you're constantly changing gear fast, and at high RPMs, with a shortened throw. Whether that was down to the bean-counters or Renaults "that'll do" attitude is open for debate.

 

[bedoef]

Could be any of the following which you've already mentioned (not exhaustive):

- Worn engine/gearbox mounts
- Old brake fluid in the clutch system
- Worn out/failing slave cylinder
- Synchros starting to fail

These boxes weren't meant for cars like the Clio where you're constantly changing gear fast, and at high RPMs, with a shortened throw. Whether that was down to the bean-counters or Renaults "that'll do" attitude is open for debate.

For me it was #4

I ran some Titan fluid through a few track days and the gearbox deteriorated to the point where I could not get into 3rd or 4th at high RPM upshifting or downshifting. I would have to get under 5k rpm otherwise I was forcing it in. Mounts and fluids were fresh and the car was fine when DD, so I suspected the synchros.

After rebuilding the gearbox, problem solved. Synchros were showing early signs of wear when they came out.

 

[NickD]

I don't profess to be an expert but would suggest if you can't select gears that it is likely to be the clutch dragging rather than syncros which would be crunching. The nature of these cars means lots of gear changes and the clutch and slave cylinder take abuse. I would hazard that the number of gear changes per mile driven would be well above average for cars. The clutch circuit, by its nature means that the fluid that goes to the slave cylinder is there for life in the very vast majority of cases as there is no option to bleed old fluid save for taking the clutch out. You could try bleeding the circuit, but unless air was left in the system when first fitted it shouldn't really get air in it and it still does not flush any fluid in the slave cylinder.
Personally I think the gearbox gets a bad rap, not just down to the low geared rations that require lots of changes but that I have stat alongside people on circuit that have wanted to change gear quicker than they can blink. I have even seen someone try so hard that they have pulled the selector cables off at the gearbox end. I don't expect this treatment is limited to circuit either. A typical club level race car is going to cover between 1,500 to 3,000 miles per season. I would expect the clutch and gearbox would be needing attention after a season's racing and certainly after 3, by which time, even in a heavily used car it still won't have covered 10,000 miles. So if a car has been "driven" then drive train issues at even moderate mileage should be expected rather than a weakness.

 

[ShantiT]

The clutch circuit, by its nature means that the fluid that goes to the slave cylinder is there for life in the very vast majority of cases as there is no option to bleed old fluid save for taking the clutch out. You could try bleeding the circuit, but unless air was left in the system when first fitted it shouldn't really get air in it and it still does not flush any fluid in the slave cylinder.

I think it is possible to bleed the clutch circuit. It is integral to the braking circuit on a 200 and when the brake fluid changed many garages/home mechanics neglect to flush the clutch circuit. So some cars will have fluid in the clutch circuit as old as the vehicle. Any Renault specialist should know how to bleed/drain the clutch circuit when the brake fluid changed. Don't fall for the BS about everything having to come apart. I'm pretty sure it was reading this forum that I gathered it was possible to do fairly simply.

My 200 recently had the service that specifies the brake fluid is changed. I specifically requested that the clutch circuit was drained/bled too and it was - as far as I'm aware. When I collected it post service the clutch pedal feel was notably improved, also the ability to select first gear when cold. The usual indicator of a poor slave cylinder/old fluid. All gear changes were generally improved.

All this work was done by Andy Cochrane, former R-Sport Wimbledon (Radbourne Racing) and Renault Master Tech; so others experiences may vary. It's certainly worth trying to bleed the clutch circuit if you can. Or just ensuring it's done as part of routine servicing.