GW 200 CUP (clubsport)

LiamP

Paid Member
It's a Porsche driver thing, I was left for dust on the straights yesterday at Snetterton but all over them like a fat pigeon on a chip through the twisty bits.

Car's looking really good too!
Cheers, yeah it’s as if they see the fact it’s a Clio and think hmm I am quicker than that, spoke to someone a few years ago who had the same issue so covered his TT in stickers and a massive wing. Apparently it resulted in everyone getting out the way and no more silly overtakes...
 

LiamP

Paid Member
Part 1 - Brands Hatch I

Sorry if the following gets a bit detailed, want to use this thread as a record of what I have changed so might get boring :grinning:

First up was rear discs and brakes, renault original discs/bearings as the old where rusty as hell and lipped also the pads where in a very sorry state. Also upgraded to ds2500 (ds1.11 on the front), took a few attempts as the pads where sticking on the sides of the calliper (need to refurb)

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 10.12.18.png

It was then straight to Brands for a day session with Track Obsession on the 10th June, still getting used to them but I think I actually prefer the softer oem pads but I will give it some more time.

Great day where I was consistency getting on the minute mark, struggled with the stock suspension setup on this track as the undulations make things very tricky to get grip/power down. Managed to get some free tuition in however there was a 750mc race meeting that weekend so was being used a testing day which made things interesting!

First day in the clio where temps where around 25, with no air con it gets hot, really hot, hate having the window open as it makes it harder to hear what the engine/brakes/tyres are doing, discs/pads also got hot so need to get a brake cooling setup sorted.

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 10.12.09.png51242274942_106e14b428_o.jpg51243718779_0137bd4d86_o.jpg51244169545_93e70108a9_o.jpg

Part 2/3 to follow...
 
Last edited:

LiamP

Paid Member
Part 2 - Geo setup

I have been off in June as I take a tax break before returning as a contracting so plenty of time to tinker with the car, so got the following ordered via Nad at NADUK down in Littlehampton (Sussex)

Geo
AST5100 + top mounts with 80/80Nm (track/road springs)
SuperPro Drop Links (adjustable)
SuperPro Front Wishbone Rear Bush Kit
Powerflex Front Arm Front Bush
SuperPro Rear Axle Bush Kit
Pure Motorsport rear shims (camber/toe)
Brakes
HEL Performance Braided Brake Lines
Motul RBF660 Brake Fluid

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 10.36.57.png

Did a lot of reading on here and google regarding setups, chatting to Nad we decided that matching the cup racer setup (like many on here) is probably the best place to start and then adjusting based on tyre temps and performance on the track. Obviously the AST's took a while to get delivered, the clio decided that every bolt on the suspension was going to be seized and changing the bushes isn't exactly simple!

Track day booked for the Wednesday and after an initial geo to work out shims needed work started early Tuesday morning, 9pm on Tuesday and the car is back together however front/rear geo is completely off.

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 10.39.26.png

At this point I started questioning what the hell I am doing and if I was going to have a drivable car..

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 10.39.35.png

4hrs later the car is back on the ground, geo setup, not perfect due to time limitations and running out of shims however it was ready!

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 10.44.21.png

Can't recommend Nad enough, attention to detail was next level whilst working on the car till 1am and even staying later as I drive home to make sure there was no knocking/rubbing, just unbelievable really.


Part 3 to follow with geo / track day / tyre temps!
 
Last edited:

LiamP

Paid Member
Part 2 continued - Geo

As mentioned the forum was used for geo research with this thread being very helpful, even though the racers used slicks we thought it would be easier to dial down the camber/toe if required after the initial setup.

Final readings here, note the slight difference left/right camber and rear toe due to a mixture of running out of time and shims, decided at 11pm that it shouldn't be too much of an issue due to the clockwise nature of UK tracks and I would be back in a few weeks anyway.

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 18.03.32.png

This was all done with me on board to maximise accuracy, ride height was also matched to the racer setup, which is low, probably too low (more to come on this :tearsofjoy:)

We then moved to corner weighting, again with me on board and half a tank of fuel, surprised with the weight tbh at 1266kg I thought it would be more. Minor adjustments to get the cross weight to 50/50, Nad was annoyed that it wasn't exact but considering it was now Wednesday he let it go till next time.

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 18.03.44.png


Quick maths:

Cup weight: 1204kg
Mine: 1160kg (minus fuel and me)

So currently looking at a 44kg weight saving from Akra (-6.7kg), Lithium battery (-11kg), AST5100 (?kg) and rear seats (-15kg?) removed.

Was concerned the handling would be a nightmare on the roads with this setup but I was pleasantly surprised at how compliant the AST's are when fully soft (even with the bushes) and having this much camber! Of course I had some fun on the roads back and was really blown away by the difference, the focus ST had about 2degrees but stepping up to 3 is a massive difference! The way you can get the power down out of a corner feels like having an LSD installed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IainMac

LiamP

Paid Member
Part 3 - Brands Hatch II

5hrs and a few coffees later I am at the track, note the upgrade my dad has made in an attempt to keep up with the cup, it hasn't worked and as you can see our setup is starting to look 'all the gear and no idea'

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 18.29.19.png

At this point its raining and the track is damp so the PS4's stay on as I do a few sessions to get a feel of the car. Kept the dampers fully soft and started getting stuck in, good group of cars with lots of renaults and only 1/2 straight line heros. Things dry out quickly so the AR1's go on and I started messing with the dampers, ended the day with fully hard rear and 3 clicks from hard front which seamed to suit my driving.

I was concerned about losing the cup characteristics when moving to coils but it's just got sooooo much better. It's probably the corner weighting but you can trail the brake, point the car at the apex and put your foot down, zero understeer and if you want it very controllable oversteer. The end of the day I was probably pushing things too far on the curbs and started to get a feel of bump steer through surtees but again it was controllable.

You can see how low it is now and will now cock a wheel even through the high speed corners

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 19.09.05.png

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 19.09.17.png

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 19.08.50.png

With the plan of optimising the setup and optimising tyre wear I purchased a budget tyre pyrometer from RA going for the dunlop probe, tbh for under £70 it's pretty good. Reading a few guides it seemed the idea is to measure as soon as possible after a lap and get as close to the carcass as possible, this sounds easy but it isn't and the reading I have taken are definitely lower than the actual operating temps (AR1 70-100degrees) however it's better than nothing.

See below for the average of my last 5 sessions, I would ignore the rear centres as they are lower due to the tyre (over inflation issue from a previous day)

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 18.56.23.png

Welcome any thoughts on this but it seems the setup is pretty good even though I am running semi-slicks, obviously a balance between tyre wear and performance and its likely the front inners have a high temp due to outside cooling before I can take a reading. Tyres as of yesterday, note that the rears used to be my fronts and visa versa however you can see the difference the left/right camber has made on pickup on the rears.

Front (left|right)

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 18.59.41.png

Rear (left|right)

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 18.59.30.png

Have since carried out an oil change, glad I did as it wasn't looking great to the point I am going to change every 4 TD's or 1000 miles (was double) I also had a quick check of the suspension and found a mighty hole in both arch wells.

Screenshot 2021-07-04 at 19.04.51.png

Its caused by the inside edge due to the low height/camber, I have therefore put an order in for some 20/18mm spacers to test out, if I find it impacts handling they will be coming off and the height raised but should be fun to experiment.
 

Benno

Paid Member
Personally I wouldn’t bother with spacers and just raise it a smidge, got any photos of it sat stationary? Looks very low in that pic, if you space it out you might risk damaging actual arches rather than arch liner.
 

IainMac

Paid Member
Cup racer doesn’t have arch liners so by setting it at the cup racer ride height you’re going to have interference. Mine is set slightly higher for this reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

LiamP

Paid Member
Hmm I knew it was probably going to cause issues, it’s rubbing on the curved part of the arch so spacers should move it to the deeper part. Hopefully it doesn’t move the problem to the outside edge. To be honest I have been looking for an excuse to test out spacers and plan on doing some on/off tests on the same day to see if they actually make a difference.

This is probably the best photo I have at the moment

55A087AB-E3BF-4424-B791-0B08B8580DCA.jpeg
 

LiamP

Paid Member
Had some time in the evenings this week to get the spacers on, gone with the minimum of 21 front and 18 rear. took me 4hrs to get the studs off and replace with longer :sweat: Breaking the loctite was easy but getting the studs out was a real pain, even using the double bolt trick and lots of heat it seems I was a bit overzealous when applying especially on the rear (brake heat at the front probably helped) No question that the car looks better filling the arches I just hope it solves the issue.

E5BFFB31-399E-410D-86FD-E13CE0E29D03.jpeg

Today I then got another few hours to finally have a go at copying the 1*2 guys with the corvette brake ducts. Unlike the mk2 there is no handy bolt hole however with just two cable ties I managed to get the following:

5A35A2D0-EA5E-4767-AFCC-50AC1BD52F3F.jpeg

A7282BE1-F953-4440-8B85-6F7639641DC9.jpeg

F46D9258-D030-4567-A83C-0826FAD75C41.jpeg

I have about inch clearance on full lock even with the arches back although had to cut a small section out. It seems like the offside is slightly different with less space even with the washer bottle out of the way so I had to trim the duct slightly.

The duct is massive so should make a big difference, might do a test on the next track day to compare temps. Entry could do with a 3D printed part as there are gaps but it’s solid and should do the job to start off with, if this survives a few track days I will look to replace the cable ties for a more permanent fixing.
 

LiamP

Paid Member
Had a track day yesterday at Goodwood to shake down the spacers/cooling, even with 30 degrees heat the brakes performance was on par or better than when I have been out in sub 20 degrees so very happy, talking to @RSRowe about a modified version of his brake duct kit to get a nice fit at the front as it currently has some gaps.

Originally had plans to run a few sessions with/without spacers and try and measure the impact of the brake cooling but instead bit the bullet and had a morning of tuition with the ex F1 racer Mike Wilds. Easily the best £75 I have spent on the car/me. He has completely changed my approach to driving fast and things that I have been watching/reading finally clicked.

I found that the spacers have had a positive impact to the handling with more feedback and the car feeling a lot more planted mid corner and the back will more than happily spin round if required :thumb:

Screenshot 2021-07-20 at 19.41.29.png

51324679879_45ca9aa69f_k.jpg

51323281377_45cd1d4777_k.jpg

Quick clip of my dad hitting a bird, his bumper grill with the undertray flipping out and me shitting myself.


Continued subtle stripping with rear belts and all sound deadening removed, next on the list is buckets / harness / half cage, decided that I need to take safety more seriously!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sean197

RSRowe

Paid Member
I hadn’t even noticed your last post :tearsofjoy:

Will be down working on my own car at the weekend so will make a start measuring up.

See people say spacers are shit all the time on the socials, but I couldn’t tell the difference on mine. That might just be my wank driving tho!
 
  • Like
Reactions: LiamP

LiamP

Paid Member
I hadn’t even noticed your last post :tearsofjoy:

Will be down working on my own car at the weekend so will make a start measuring up.

See people say spacers are shit all the time on the socials, but I couldn’t tell the difference on mine. That might just be my wank driving tho!
:thumb:

Haha, based on my limited memory of my degree I think I am probably low enough that the scrub radius is staying negative, I might try and measure it one day.
 

suj

Paid Member
Great update, looks like a fun day! Another I've always wanted to do (been with friends driving, but not myself)

:thumb:

Haha, based on my limited memory of my degree I think I am probably low enough that the scrub radius is staying negative, I might try and measure it one day.
Haha I'm glad I'm not alone, I wanted to do this and also correct bump steer and roll centre, it's been soooo long since I've done these calcs that will need some "Google sponsored refreshing" :tearsofjoy:
 

Similar Thread Suggestions