Alignment Values? (workshop manual)

Discussion in 'Suspension, Brakes & Steering' started by Rishi, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. Rishi

    Rishi Platinum Member

    Messages:
    606
    Location:
    NWLDN
    Car:
    197 Cup Albi Blue
    Ok, so I've become slightly obsessed with alignment values after recently having a heavy n/s/f wheel/curb impact, I've replaced all the n/s/f suspension, subframe and even decided to get my car on an alignment jig to make sure everything on the body measures up.

    After the body has been checked/adjusted the toe out will need to be adjusted on the front, what I'm undecided about is whether to stick with the values they give at alignment centres or go with what's in the workshop manual.

    I have the cup pack (or 'extreme pack' as the workshop manual describes it) so the desired value on the front toe out is -0°12’ ± 12’ whereas at alignment centres it is -0°05' (+/- 5')

    The other values in the manual correspond with what they give at alignment centres:

    Castor Angle: 5°38’ ± 39’
    Camber: -0°59’ ± 30’


    Apart from the toe values:

    Toe: -0°10’ ± 8’ (non-cup pack)
    Toe: -0°12’ ± 12’ (cup/extreme pack)


    The camber value on the rear is the same in both the workshop manual & what alignment centres go off of

    Camber: -1°33’ ± 20’

    But again the Toe is different, alignment centres have the toe as 0°15' (+/- 15')

    In the workshop manual:

    Toe-in: 0°31’ ± 30’ (same on cup/non-cup)
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018

  2. RalphyBMW

    RalphyBMW

    Messages:
    2,381
    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    My understanding of the front toe settings is the same as yours, i.e.
    Toe: -0°10’ ± 8’ (non-cup pack)
    Toe: -0°12’ ± 12’ (cup/extreme pack)

    My car is setup to the extreme settings.

    In reality there is little difference between these, but wherever told you -0°05' (+/- 5') is very wrong.
     
  3. Rishi

    Rishi Platinum Member

    Messages:
    606
    Location:
    NWLDN
    Car:
    197 Cup Albi Blue
    2 different alignment centres gave the ideal front toe value as -0°05' (+/- 5') (half way between -0°09' & -0°01')
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  4. RalphyBMW

    RalphyBMW

    Messages:
    2,381
    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    Don't know, very odd though. My first thought is that they have used the settings for a standard Clio, though it does say RenaultSport on both.
     
  5. Rishi

    Rishi Platinum Member

    Messages:
    606
    Location:
    NWLDN
    Car:
    197 Cup Albi Blue
    I thought that myself but even the values for the standard mk3 (again from workshop manual) don't match up, something to pay attention to maybe, maybe there's a lot of 197's running around with the wrong toe adjustment :wink:

    I should add that with the front toe at -0°05' (+/- 5') the car feels completely fine, but this cars all about cornering and some extra toe out could be desireable
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  6. Foxspeed

    Foxspeed "the new red baron" Moderator

    Messages:
    15,585
    Location:
    sat behind a laptop over-moderating...
    Car:
    ford mustang shadow gt v8
    if you go to the extreme with the +/- values there is a massive range to choose from of how you have the front toe value....

    i had to do a steering arm on mine and checked it before changing it - on the non-laser dunlop tracking guages they gave a value of as near dam it 0 - so after i changed the arm it was set back to 0....apart from a slight drift to the n/s due to road camber it drives and handles great on 18 r26r wheels and rs2 tyres :thumbup:
     
  7. Rishi

    Rishi Platinum Member

    Messages:
    606
    Location:
    NWLDN
    Car:
    197 Cup Albi Blue
    How come you had to change the arm mate? Im unsure about my n/s arm, it steers fine & everything but its the only bit i didn't change on the n/s, i'll probly wait until i can afford the rack from the 200 cup as its feels fine as is :wink:
     
  8. Foxspeed

    Foxspeed "the new red baron" Moderator

    Messages:
    15,585
    Location:
    sat behind a laptop over-moderating...
    Car:
    ford mustang shadow gt v8
    it had some end float (play in it) so changed it....been like it for ages :thumbdown:
     
  9. litchy

    litchy

    Messages:
    2,893
    Need to get my alignment done again....
     
  10. The Fonze

    The Fonze

    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Derby
    Car:
    Clio 200 cup
    Never had mine done and since its been lowered the steering feels slightly more vague for some reason. Going to get it done this week I think.
     
  11. marshall

    marshall

    Messages:
    2,004
    Location:
    March, Cambs
    Why do they not have the settings for the two versions on the Hunter Hawk Eye laser geometry gear?!

    They ALWAYS ask me "is it the same as a normal clio?" I highly doubt it sunshine.
     
  12. c_q

    c_q

    Messages:
    14
    What are the recommended values that people use for alignment? Do you go with the workshop manual or whatever settings the alignment equipment has?
     
  13. singlespeed

    singlespeed

    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    Elgin, Scotland
    If the alignment centers -0°05' (+/- 5') it toe angle per wheel and the manual is refering to total toe of -0°12’ ± 12’ then theres not much difference between them (0°02’ which is like 0.2mm over an 18" wheel).
     
  14. Rishi

    Rishi Platinum Member

    Messages:
    606
    Location:
    NWLDN
    Car:
    197 Cup Albi Blue
  15. tycbec

    tycbec Platinum Member

    Messages:
    32
    Car:
    Clio RS EDC (200T)
    image.jpg
    Found this in a german test of the 200T
     
  16. Womble

    Womble

    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Car:
    Clio 200
    tyqe3u7a.jpg

    My settings for my 200, it turns in very well but is a bit twitchy at the rear. Are these the correct settings? Or what is everyone else using?

    d93927c9d74b5041845fdbcddd53cebb_zps66828d52.jpg

    Try this maybe clearer
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2013
    A1axx likes this.
  17. Chris_200CUP

    Chris_200CUP Paid Member

    Messages:
    1,195
    Location:
    Stoke
    Car:
    200 RS
    [MENTION=3821]Womble[/MENTION]

    where did get settings from too start with?
     
  18. Womble

    Womble

    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Car:
    Clio 200
    These came off the Hunter machine, but I'm not a 100% they are factory. Someone will be along soon with the correct settings.
     
  19. Chris_200CUP

    Chris_200CUP Paid Member

    Messages:
    1,195
    Location:
    Stoke
    Car:
    200 RS
    So what are the true settings for front and rear for the extreme cup ? Someone must know
     
  20. Chris_200CUP

    Chris_200CUP Paid Member

    Messages:
    1,195
    Location:
    Stoke
    Car:
    200 RS
    20140311_152445_zpsiftj5yhb.jpg


    Just had this posted up for me by a reno dealer

    Got mine booked in for sat, got feeling its going be miles out as looks like last time had tracking done it was at a tyre fitters :thumb1:
     

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