197 F1 Newbie after some advise please - throttle response

R

Rockshow

Gold Member
Hi all.

I'm new to this site, and to Clios. Having cut my teeth on Caterhams and all track experience having been with Caterhams too I thought it time for a change.

I've just bought a 197 F1 that's had a few minor modifications such as air filter, Bridgestone track tyres, uprated brake lines and fluid but other than that car is standard. I think at some point the gearbox has probably been rebuilt and cam belt changed recently.

There are however a couple of slight points that need addressing (which all helped with getting money off!!) such as a slight exhaust blow on the centre section of the exhaust and a slight knock when going over bumps (nothing horrendous sounding) on the NSF which I'm hoping (praying!!) is either a drop link or ball joint!

But this leads me on to my query. The throttle response on the pedal. Having previously raced and tracked the Caterham and also just from driving other cars it feels like the throttle response on the Clio isn't that great. I tend to rev on the down shift and give the throttle a little blip, and most other cars I've driven just a little touch on the pedal is enough to increase the revs 1000-1500 rpm or so. I'm finding with the Clio that if I just give a slight touch on the pedal when down changing it doesn't really do anything to the revs!!! And that I really need to blip the throttle quite hard and far for the desired effect. It just doesn't seem that sensitive or responsive to a light foot. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions as to what this could be and to maybe remedy it? Or is this a characteristic of the Clios and I just need to be a bit more heavy footed?!

Any help or advise would be welcomed!!

Scott
 
Hi Scott, welcome to the forum.
Although I don't have the technical expertise to diagnose the issues, I must admit that I share your thoughts on the throttle response and have recently been trying to master rev matching with the same outcome.
I'm wondering if a map will sort it - perhaps [MENTION=54116]mjcliosport[/MENTION] can shed some light on throttle response since his recent map at Engine Dynamics?
Get some pics up of the new car!
 
Welcome to the forum Scott! Great choice with the R27, hope you're enjoying it in comparison to the Caterhams!

Yeah, I'm the same with regards throttle response like Micah and yourself, I notice that you have to give it a good prod to get the revs up... I always thought it was a characteristic of these cars rather than it being something that can be altered, but I might be wrong!

As Micah suggests, there are a few on here who've had recent remaps who could shed some light on whether that improved things [MENTION=54245]sevenfourate[/MENTION] [MENTION=41063]Pav[/MENTION]
 
Hi Scott, welcome to the forum!
I'm aware of a product a fair few people on here use called a 'Sprint Booster'. It's a plug and play device that connects into the wiring on the throttle to trick the ECU/improve the throttle response and comes with 2/3 different modes. I've not personally ran it myself however i'm sure if you have a search on here, you'll find plenty of people that have and offer various reviews. Hope it helps!
 
Thanks guys for your responses!! I'll have a search for the Sprint Booster! Could be a worthy investment!!!

I'm definitely enjoying the car! Take a bit of getting used to not being rear wheel drive, but they stick to the road don't they!!!!

Thanks again and I'm sure it won't be long before there's more questions from me!!!

Scott
 
Hi and welcome.

yeah the throttle response on these is a bit ****, you need to properly **** the pedal to get the revs to match.

a lot of people like to fit sprint boosters, but as far as I know, they just trick the car into thinking it has 50%,75%,100% throttle when you apply say 25%... So I imagine that will be a pain on track and fast roads when you're trying to balance the car on the throttle.

the sprint boosters seem to be forever for sale on here too so you can always try and sell on if you don't like it, which is also what most seem to do lol
 
Hello Scott, welcome aboard.

Great choice on the car, not biased...

Really good to hear you're enjoying the handling even though you're coming from a Caterham. I just love driving ours. It has that fun factor that cars many many times the price can't even touch. Every time I drive ours (every time I'm allowed to!) it makes me feel like I'm 17 again.

:smile:

As for the throttle response issue, @knuckles above me has it pretty bang on. First and foremost, it's pants. Secondly, yes the sprint booster will help with initial response but it's not going to help with drivability. Aside from revmatching, it's probably going to be a bit too much off or on for any throttle modulation. My best advice is, just deal with it. Get it mapped, get some suspension on it, maybe get it breathing a bit better (but it will only be a bit) and then drive it like you stole it. GREAT cars and handle punishment very well.

If you don't already know, this forum is an amazing encyclopaedia. Anything you want to know is a search away. Do an advanced search and search for sprint booster in thread titles and you'll find all you need to know.

Also, if you're new, please look up map sensors and scuttle panel drainage! Really worth it!
 
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I love my SB a lot..the car feels much better..I know there are people out there who will not approve but thats their opininon..once you fit one you will appreciate its preformance..
but in general the throttle responce is quite s.....t on these..even after remap...
 
Thanks again for the great replies! And thank you for all the welcomes! I always like to get involved with the forums when I have a new toy! They're a great source of help and information plus everyone has that shared passion! I look forward to plenty more discussions on here!!!

Its also reassuring that the throttle lag isn't just a problem with mine!! Having owned the car for 48hrs now I'm still learning her moods! Will be out this weekend checking the panel drainage and checking that exhaust blow and near side front end knock. Think I'll live the throttle as is. Dorm want to compromise on driveability!

Scott
 
Where are you from [MENTION=54682]Rockshow[/MENTION]?

also, I'm sure you need a standalone ECU to map the throttle as there isn't a parameter for it in the standard one?

id like to be corrected on that mind.
 
I'm from Thundersley in sunny Essex! Think I've probably not done myself any favours stereotyping myself by buying a hot hatch and living in Essex :wink:

I agree with you though [MENTION=3887]knuckles[/MENTION] I would have thought the ECU would need to be a standalone/aftermarket unit to be programmable, but not knowing the car didn't know if Renault had in fact intended for the ECU to be reprogrammed by someone other than them. But then I guess maybe it's just a case of having the Renault software to be able to remap or change anything within the management?

I did have one query, do these cars tend to get up to temp, or at least start to get up to temp showing on the temp gauge quite quickly? I like to let it warm up for a couple of minutes from cold, and the last couple of mornings have done just that, pulled off the drive and 30 seconds down the road the needle on the gauge is already starting to move slightly. I drove it back from Farnborough on Saturday, sat in monumental traffic and she didn't hiccup once with heating or getting too hot. And on my short journeys in the mornings she didn't get to half way on the gauge as I tend to drive gently from cold, but was surprised to see a reading on the gauge so quickly??

Scott
 
The temp gauge needle does seem to get moving pretty quickly - as you say a couple of mins at idle and it's already reading above cold. I find around 10-15mins of gentle driving gets it to where it needs to be
 
I'm surprised at this to be honest. I always found mine to be fine, when changing down and blipping the throttle. I just used to give it two little shoves and it seemed to have the desired effect. Maybe I was pressing it harder than I realised though. But it seemed fine to me. So much so, I was disappointed when I drove my brother in law's fiesta st, and when you blipped the throttle, nothing happened. Although, the 200T I have now blips the throttle on change down anyway, so happy days! Enjoy your new car! (Thumbs up)
 
Just to quickly reply to the OP: I know what you mean about being slightly unresponsive when blipping the throttle on down changes. Especially low down.

And no my recent remap made no noticeable big difference.

Hi and welcome btw.
 
Always found I have to give the throttle a proper shove to get the revs to blip. As seven said, low down in the revs especially, I find you can literally prod the throttle with no response.
 
Sounds very normal to me too re temp reading on the gauge. The needle does get going pretty quickly, especially in warmer months like we have now. It is a hot little engine bay, but as you've said the gauge never seems to go over the halfway mark, even in standing traffic in hot weather/giving it some beans.

Looking forward to the photos :thumbup1:
 
you won't correct the throttle on the oem ecu because all modern ecu's use torque strategies and it is not a linear relationship between the pedal position sensor and the throttle position. You need to run a standalone if you want it linear like a cable throttle, and really you want to switch to TPS load mapping instead or MAP based. It's a rather expensive set of changes but I can vouch it will fix the Clio's throttle.
 
TB Rich said:
you won't correct the throttle on the oem ecu because all modern ecu's use torque strategies and it is not a linear relationship between the pedal position sensor and the throttle position. You need to run a standalone if you want it linear like a cable throttle, and really you want to switch to TPS load mapping instead or MAP based. It's a rather expensive set of changes but I can vouch it will fix the Clio's throttle.
Click to expand...


Understand exactly what your saying - and im sure your facts are 110% correct.

But; i personally dont see it as a problem. My Citroen C2 Loeb (VTS) was FAR worse. Like at times; had no relationship at all between throttle pedal and how the engine is reacting. Or not reacting as the case may be......

I'll be the first to admit the Clio's isnt perfect. But theres far worse out there, and its actually a 'joy' compared to some (Example of above) :smile:

In saying all of that i'd be really interested in a drive of one thats had this blip (No pun intended) eradicated !
 
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