197/200 Dampers

[DanceMonkeyRS200]

What are the differences in dampers between the 197 and 200 cup and non cup?

I know there are some damping rate changes along the lines of one is 15% firmer than the other does anybody have the details?

Also do the front dampers from the 197 fit a late 200 with small top mounts so long as springs and top mounts are the later type?

Thanks

 

[suj]

Front Dampers:
197 = large top mounts
200 (early) = large top mounts
200 (June 2010 onwards) = small top mounts

Rear Dampers:
Same fitment through all the years


You can fit early 200 dampers to a 197 and vice versa, but you cannot fit the late ones. Even if you have springs, the base of the damper where spring sits on is different too.

Cup dampers are then the non-cup damper but stiffer.

Cup Damper Stiffness increase over their non-cup damper counterpart:
197 = 10%
200 (early) = 45%
200 (late) = 45%

So you could fit early 200 cup dampers and 200 cup rear dampers and they are the stiffest ones available (and probably the cheapest)

A good post detailing loads of information

https://www.renaultsportclub.co.uk/forum/renaultsport-models/clio/42744-renaultsport-clio-197-cup-r27-200-cup-gordini-silverstone-raider-specifications

If you have early large mounts, then these are the Cup dampers you need:
Fronts:

Renault Clio 200 Front Shock Absorber Cup Version 01.2007 to 08.2010

Renault Clio 200 Front Shock Absorber Cup Version 01.2007 to 08.2010 - Products in stock for various models with secure payment - 8200926467

renaultpartsdirect.co.uk

Rears:

Renault Clio 200 Rear Shock Absorber Cup Version - 8200926468

Renault Clio 200 Rear Shock Absorber Cup Version - Renault Parts Direct - Renault Parts Direct is a web based service from our authorised Renault dealer.

renaultpartsdirect.co.uk

If you have later small top mounts:
Fronts:

Renault Clio 200 Front Shock Absorber Cup Version 09.2010 Onwards

Renault Clio 200 Front Shock Absorber Cup Version 09.2010 Onwards - Products in stock for various models with secure payment and fast delivery.

renaultpartsdirect.co.uk

Rears:

Renault Clio 200 Rear Shock Absorber Cup Version - 8200926468

Renault Clio 200 Rear Shock Absorber Cup Version - Renault Parts Direct - Renault Parts Direct is a web based service from our authorised Renault dealer.

renaultpartsdirect.co.uk

 

[DanceMonkeyRS200]

Thank you Suj great post

 

[DanceMonkeyRS200]

Front Dampers:
197 = large top mounts
200 (early) = large top mounts
200 (June 2010 onwards) = small top mounts

Rear Dampers:
Same fitment through all the years


You can fit early 200 dampers to a 197 and vice versa, but you cannot fit the late ones. Even if you have springs, the base of the damper where spring sits on is different too.

Cup dampers are then the non-cup damper but stiffer.

Cup Damper Stiffness increase over their non-cup damper counterpart:
197 = 10%
200 (early) = 45%
200 (late) = 45%

So you could fit early 200 cup dampers and 200 cup rear dampers and they are the stiffest ones available (and probably the cheapest)

A good post detailing loads of information

https://www.renaultsportclub.co.uk/forum/renaultsport-models/clio/42744-renaultsport-clio-197-cup-r27-200-cup-gordini-silverstone-raider-specifications

If you have later small top mounts:
Fronts:

Renault Clio 200 Front Shock Absorber Cup Version 09.2010 Onwards

Renault Clio 200 Front Shock Absorber Cup Version 09.2010 Onwards - Products in stock for various models with secure payment and fast delivery.

renaultpartsdirect.co.uk

Rears:

Renault Clio 200 Rear Shock Absorber Cup Version - 8200926468

Renault Clio 200 Rear Shock Absorber Cup Version - Renault Parts Direct - Renault Parts Direct is a web based service from our authorised Renault dealer.

renaultpartsdirect.co.uk

My 200 is a late car with the small top mounts and as I understand it I can only use the later 200 front dampers either cup or non cup or I can go for coilovers so long as I get the correct version for a small top mount car?

Are the spring platforms in a different position on the non cup dampers or is the front drop all in the cup springs? I presume it's just springs that are different plus the internals of the damper rather than the spring platform position on the stock renault dampers?

 

[burrellbloke]

My 200 is a late car with the small top mounts and as I understand it I can only use the later 200 front dampers either cup or non cup or I can go for coilovers so long as I get the correct version for a small top mount car?

Yes, whatever you replace must fit the small/late mounts that you have for your car. After market products will either be for early/large holes or late/small holes.

Are the spring platforms in a different position on the non cup dampers or is the front drop all in the cup springs? I presume it's just springs that are different plus the internals of the damper rather than the spring platform position on the stock renault dampers?

I think it is all in the springs.

 

[DanceMonkeyRS200]

Yes, whatever you replace must fit the small/late mounts that you have for your car. After market products will either be for early/large holes or late/small holes.



I think it is all in the springs.

I've read somewhere that the early front dampers dont fit the later smaller top mounts but I've not seen it confirmed anywhere? Is the top mounting point on the damper different to suit the larger top mounts?

From previous experience it's just a large fixing nut on the top of the damper to secure the top mount but are they different sizes between early and late?
If the fixing is the same I could run the early softer tuned cup dampers from a 197 along with 197 cup rears as the rears all interchange

 

[burrellbloke]

I have no idea on whether you can retrofit the early dampers on later cars - that is beyond my knowledge and skill.

The rears are interchangeable as they are no design differences.

Have you driven different Clios with the different suspension sets ups you are interested in?

 

[suj]

I've read somewhere that the early front dampers dont fit the later smaller top mounts but I've not seen it confirmed anywhere? Is the top mounting point on the damper different to suit the larger top mounts?

From previous experience it's just a large fixing nut on the top of the damper to secure the top mount but are they different sizes between early and late?
If the fixing is the same I could run the early softer tuned cup dampers from a 197 along with 197 cup rears as the rears all interchange

I answered all this in my post, I can confirm this as someone sold me late B14 coilovers (by accident) and I tried everything to fit them, they do not fit.
The damper spring mount at bottom is totally different then the top mount design to how it bolts is different.

Seeing as prices for parts are same for small and large top mounts, what are you trying to achieve?

 

[DanceMonkeyRS200]

I answered all this in my post, I can confirm this as someone sold me late B14 coilovers (by accident) and I tried everything to fit them, they do not fit.
The damper spring mount at bottom is totally different then the top mount design to how it bolts is different.

Seeing as prices for parts are same for small and large top mounts, what are you trying to achieve?

The early cup dampers for the 197 have a much softer damping setting than the cup option for the late 200 (small top mounts) so I was trying to discover if they were mix and match but from your answer it's cup or non cup dampers specific to the late 200 as the spring platform on the dampers are different. My thinking was the 197 cup settings could be firmer than stock 200 and more suited to fast bumpy B road use than the stock 200 cup settings as my 200 is rarely going to see track day use.

I owned a Megane 265 cup and came close to ordering a 300 Trophy 18 months ago as both were fantastic at speed on a bumpy B road but still as firm and uncompromising at low speed around town as the Clio. Maybe it's the added weight of the Megane cup that helps it absorb bumpy roads better at speed or the fact that the dampers are inclined where the Clio's are upright so will have a less progressive damping curve?

 

[suj]

Truthfully, 10% you wouldn't even notice, so just get non-cup late mount ones.

if you want compliance and track driving, just get some decent coilovers.
Or just throw some Eibachs on non-cup dampers (but when you factor in this, dampers front and rear, then springs then top mounts, you're not far off some Yellow Speed Racing coilovers from KamRacing and you can find tune your damping for your needs, or Gaz GHA coilovers)

 

[DanceMonkeyRS200]

Truthfully, 10% you wouldn't even notice, so just get non-cup late mount ones.

if you want compliance and track driving, just get some decent coilovers.
Or just throw some Eibachs on non-cup dampers (but when you factor in this, dampers front and rear, then springs then top mounts, you're not far off some Yellow Speed Racing coilovers from KamRacing and you can find tune your damping for your needs, or Gaz GHA coilovers)

Exactly what I'm trying to decide, once you replace top mounts, damper gaitors, rear spring mounting rubbers top and bottom, along with springs and dampers you have pretty much paid for Yellowspeeds. Bilsteins work out more expensive as they need top mounts

I've yet to hear a comparison between cup suspension and yellowspeeds for road use, plus how do the Yellowspeeds hold up for daily use

 

[suj]

On here I don't think anyone is running YSR, but on Facebook pages there are loads of people now running them, many have gone from cup suspension to YSRs and have said it's so much nicer, smoother for day to day, then ability to up damping for track.
They do 2 spring rates, 2nd being stiffer for track.

If I was tracking my 197 (I was going to before I bought another E36 to track) I would be getting YSR, monotube dampers, height is independently adjustable from spring preload, ability to set rear droop, damper adjustment and adjustable top mounts as standard.

I found the cup suspension on my previous R27 way too stiff, country lanes it was too harsh and make the car horrible to drive, so my current 197 I chose to put non-cup dampers + Eibachs, but as said there was only B14s or Gaz GHA at that price range.

 

[RSRowe]

Just to add. I went from a set of worn 197 cup shocks, to new early 200 ones, and there was no noticeable difference.

I did 2 trackdays with them, admitted defeat, then bought Gaz Golds.

 

[Paul_D]

Anyone know if the non cup 2010+ dampers are available? I can't find any listed online, I might have to actually phone somewhere to find out!

 

[PITA]

These?

 

[Paul_D]

These?

Yes those . Kam's website was playing up last week when I was searching. Thanks.