N/a track car Vs 225 conversion

geordie

geordie

I've currently got a 197 that u use for track days. I only cover around 1000 a year in it to and from track days.

I feel I am now at the point where I need a little bit more power as I am struggling on the straights.

The cars got descent tyres and suspension. The rear seats are removed and that's it.

My question is would I be better off completely stripping the car cut off anything I don't need etc and fit a lsd. Or save up some money and drop a Mégane engine In it?
 
I have a track spec 200 and @Big Ben has a club sport 197 megclio running 316ish bhp

We both attended Cadwell Park last week in mixed forecast setting, both run the same coilover and tyre set up albeit I’m running more camber.

From my biased view over the course of a lap there wasn’t much in it maybe 1 or 2 secs to the megclio, Bens running better brakes but I’m a lot lighter. Running a diff would make a big difference and something I’ve yet to get round to doing

On the straights yes the megclio pulls away but in the corners the Clio was slighter quicker.

I’m sure Ben would add his perspective on this.

But ultimately it depends on what you want
 
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Not related to this question directly, but from previous trackcars I would say enjoy the "evolution" of your car.
I really enjoyed my 200sx as I slowly evolved it, it was fun doing that journey, but with my E36 track car I kinda of did everything in one go and didn't enjoy it as much (also you may change your journey as you go along).

I would say some of the biggest things were:
* Bucket seats - they give you a sense of so much more control as you're not sliding about
* Good brakes - again as above gives you a sense of control that they won't overheat etc
* Tyres - you said you got "decent", what ones? A great track tyre will make a good difference (once you get the hot tyre pressures right)
* Suspension - adjustable helps fine tune for different tracks but of course adds more complexity (also this includes stuff like polybushed engine mounts and suspension)
* Losing interior bits - making it of course lighter, but if you use the car a lot will get annoying (sounds like this won't be a problem for you), also you get a sense of more speed due to extra sense of speed due to extra noise and vibration etc.

I would say the above will be a good starting point and you'll be exploiting more of your power / getting faster, you may then find out that you won't want to go meg engine, or the literally opposite, as I said before you will come to different crossroads.

Also if you did the above then decide about engine, it won't take away from what engine you decide, as you'd probably want to do those bits anyways (as they are "cheaper" than the meg conversion).

Sorry it isn't specific to Clios as i've not tracked it (so @Beany and @Big Ben reviews will be more specific) this is just a more general track evolution explanation.
 
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@suj has covered that extremely well actually, I’ve got a progress thread on the site if you’re ever bored. Not a great deal in informative but shows the cars “evolution”
 
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My meglio has rear seats/belts removed, coilovers etc., but kept air con. I don't try and compete on track days,( 80 years old, I got over that many years ago!) but drive quick enough, meets lots of people, and drive home at the end of the day.. As already stated, it depends on what you want from your car. either way, drive it, enjoy it.
 
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suj said:
Not related to this question directly, but from previous trackcars I would say enjoy the "evolution" of your car.
I really enjoyed my 200sx as I slowly evolved it, it was fun doing that journey, but with my E36 track car I kinda of did everything in one go and didn't enjoy it as much (also you may change your journey as you go along).

I would say some of the biggest things were:
* Bucket seats - they give you a sense of so much more control as you're not sliding about
* Good brakes - again as above gives you a sense of control that they won't overheat etc
* Tyres - you said you got "decent", what ones? A great track tyre will make a good difference (once you get the hot tyre pressures right)
* Suspension - adjustable helps fine tune for different tracks but of course adds more complexity (also this includes stuff like polybushed engine mounts and suspension)
* Losing interior bits - making it of course lighter, but if you use the car a lot will get annoying (sounds like this won't be a problem for you), also you get a sense of more speed due to extra sense of speed due to extra noise and vibration etc.

I would say the above will be a good starting point and you'll be exploiting more of your power / getting faster, you may then find out that you won't want to go meg engine, or the literally opposite, as I said before you will come to different crossroads.

Also if you did the above then decide about engine, it won't take away from what engine you decide, as you'd probably want to do those bits anyways (as they are "cheaper" than the meg conversion).

Sorry it isn't specific to Clios as i've not tracked it (so @Beany and @Big Ben reviews will be more specific) this is just a more general track evolution explanation.
Click to expand...

Cheers mate I think out of that list it's just loosing bits of the inside that's left
 
Beany said:
@suj has covered that extremely well actually, I’ve got a progress thread on the site if you’re ever bored. Not a great deal in informative but shows the cars “evolution”
Click to expand...
I am sure I've seen it but I'm going to have a another look for some inspiration mate
 
I like the idea of going Megane engine. But I’ve seen a lot of people say it’s worth getting the 250 engine - stuff starts getting expensive, and I’d much rather just book more trackdays at the mo.

Another couple of thing which put me off, is the number of people who seem to sell them straight after fitting the engine, and the lads which have cooling issues. I love staying out on track for long stints. Would do my nut in being limited to the cooking capabilities.
 
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RSRowe said:
I like the idea of going Megane engine. But I’ve seen a lot of people say it’s worth getting the 250 engine - stuff starts getting expensive, and I’d much rather just book more trackdays at the mo.

Another couple of thing which put me off, is the number of people who seem to sell them straight after fitting the engine, and the lads which have cooling issues. I love staying out on track for long stints. Would do my nut in being limited to the cooking capabilities.
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I think of all people I believe @youngarthur would advise against a 250 engine purely on the issues he inherited and it’s a tight squeeze plus the gearbox from a mk3 meg doesn’t fit!
Done properly a forged 225 engine and gearbox is the best way forward.

Yeah the market is flooded with megclio’s purely coz they’re done in someone’s garage who has an engine crane and put higher mileage engines in that the shell and their complete dogs. Half them don’t have much information regarding the lumps they’re putting in
 
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I must say, I've rarely ever felt like I need more grunt on track. The fun for me is in the corners and, in reality, most of us probably aren't getting the most out of our cars in that respect. Going fast on the straights is just a case of mashing your right foot and, on a circuit, I'm not sure it adds all that much to the experience.

I think the problem for me is also that adding a turbo to a Clio really takes it away from what they were always about. Up to the end of the MK3, they were all about the chassis, about revving the engine out, about the response and carrying speed. I think once you go for the Mégane engine, you would lose some of the main characteristics that made me want an R.S. Clio in the first place. I can absolutely understand why people do it as, if you want more straight line performance, it's definitely the most cost effective route but, personally speaking, if I wanted a turbocharged Renault hatchback, I'd just buy a Mégane in the first place. I did in fact. I had a Meg 265 and adored it. I would have another tomorrow but, and I may be weird and overly nerdy, it's the increased performance and turbo-ness that are part of what makes the Mégane a Mégane, while it's the focus on handling and NA response that make the Clio a Clio. Mixing them just feels a bit wrong to me.

And, finally, as someone who has had their life taken over by a project that dragged on and on because I wanted everything to be perfect and kept having new ideas, there is an awful lot to be said for just enjoying a car without going too mad. Spending money on track days and tyres and just enjoying the experience of driving is probably going to bring greater rewards than spending loads of money and staring at a pile of bits in the garage :tearsofjoy:
 
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it's all down to the personal preference in the end as i wasn't a track day fan. Yet, still glad made that decision as it's really fun/thrill seeing big boys through the rear view mirror trying to chase a little hot hatchback :grin:. However, NA has it's own league and as other illustrated very well, live its evolution till it's next phase once you decide for more :wink:
 
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suj said:
What suspension, brakes and tyres are you running?
Also what seats and other mods?
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Corbeau Pro series seats, ps4s and ns2r tyres. I hate the ps4s on track. The ns2rs are about dead now and are getting replaced with ar1s or so thing similar. God speed discs with PBS pads . Yellow speed coilovers running 2 degrees camber up front. Ultra racing front and rear braces. Power flex engine mounts and arb bushes. I've got a rear axel strengthening kit coming with some poweflex bushes . That's all I can think of
 
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geordie said:
Corbeau Pro series seats, ps4s and ns2r tyres. I hate the ps4s on track. The ns2rs are about dead now and are getting replaced with ar1s or so thing similar. God speed discs with PBS pads . Yellow speed coilovers running 2 degrees camber up front. Ultra racing front and rear braces. Power flex engine mounts and arb bushes. I've got a rear axel strengthening kit coming with some poweflex bushes . That's all I can think of
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Great spec then, only thing I could have suggested was tyres (but you are switching to AR1s) and maybe stiffer suspension for track (Gaz Golds).
I am considering getting the Yellowspeeds myself.

So what do you like about the current setup? What do you not like?
I think when you start writing down stuff like that, you might find it forces your hand (let's say you say it handles great, but lacking power, then you kind of have your answer).
 
I have to say if you hate using the PS4s on track then you’re clearly using them in the incorrect setting. Wet / damp tracks they excel at.. anything dry and they overheat quickly, good for a couple of laps at most!

Swapping to ar-1 you’ll notice a massive difference over them especially the ns2rs.

Agree with Suj I think yellowspeed are perhaps too soft for track, they’re a great road coilover and the adjustability makes them slightly better than b14s.. or if you can change the spring rates to a firmer one.

You mentioned your running pro series, which are an amazing seat, are you running them with harnesses ?
 
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Beany said:
I have to say if you hate using the PS4s on track then you’re clearly using them in the incorrect setting. Wet / damp tracks they excel at.. anything dry and they overheat quickly, good for a couple of laps at most!

Swapping to ar-1 you’ll notice a massive difference over them especially the ns2rs.

Agree with Suj I think yellowspeed are perhaps too soft for track, they’re a great road coilover and the adjustability makes them slightly better than b14s.. or if you can change the spring rates to a firmer one.

You mentioned your running pro series, which are an amazing seat, are you running them with harnesses ?
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I used the ps4s at croft at the weekend and they over heated in a few laps. Maybe need to look better at tyre pressures.

I know I can change spring rates on the yellow speed coilovers to a firmer one. I'll start looking at that rather than changing to another set of coilovers. To see how I go on.

I'm just using belts till I get a cage ordered up and I'll be getting harnesses too
 
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Michelin advises running them 36psi hot.
But end of the day they’re a road tyre, a true semi slick on a nice dry day you’ll be loving it!

Yeah see if you can get a stiffer spring.. you know what rates came with the yellowspeeds as standard ?

Harnesses make a massive difference.. one of the best mods I did
 
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Croft is notoriously bad on tyres too. You need to bare in mind you’re using a high performance road tyre.
Drive within its design constraints and you’re onto a winner. Push them too hard and you’ll ruin them.
 
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