LY200 - too loud or blow up again, taking bets!

[TB Rich]

It's going to Engine Dynamics on Monday, I'm expecting about 2-3 weeks to return and it all be done. I'm in a hire car for the time so I've said no need to rush it through etc.

Yeah I'm concerned by noise limits actually. Once it's all up and running and finished - i.e happy with the power output and driveability. I'll noise test it and then assuming it'll need quieting down possibly install a silencer in the centre. It was 93db before the manifold changes - it's a **** ton louder since doing that, it'll be high 90's for sure now.

 

[MikeLYR27]

Can't believe how much NA builds are for these. My typeR costs **** all to get it to 260. I can't help but think you will be disappointed a bit after all this, 220ish isn't much for what your doing. A cammed car won't be far off on pace. But fair play all the same, hope it turns out well!

 

[TB Rich]

That's all it will be largely anyway, a cammed car. But wilder on the cam profile and higher in compression. The money has been spent on making it strong enough to take regular track abuse, I don't want a valve to sheer or a rod to let go etc hence upgrading across the board whilst it's all apart.
Disappointed? - yeah, every chance!! But at least it's slow as hell now with no compression so I will notice a staggering difference (I hope ).

I did consider selling the car, one of the options I weight up (there were many!) was to get an FN2, but I'd be wanting to do similar (k flash, toda cams, rrc mani etc) so just thought what's the point in that sort of swap. The Clio looks better, is rarer on the roads and as I didn't intend to keep it long or mod it, the lack of pace didn't overly concern me at purchase time. Certainly if I was being objective and had neither car, I would start with the Civic for sure.

 

[MikeLYR27]

It's good to see it being done none the less, I'm really keen to see the results. Think I've just been modding to long, fed up with it all now. It gets expensive and then when stuff still breaks u just think, 'why did I bother' lol!

But I'm sure you won't have the bad luck I have, have u got decent coilovers? I can tell you that clubsports are absolutely unreal! Can't wait to get my 197 on track again soon.

 

[TB Rich]

Yeah I've been modding and tracking cars now for about 10 years, most definitely should have learnt my lesson by now! Trouble is cars are pretty boring unless they're tinkered with, I think it would take a GT3 for me to not want to change anything. And even then I'd still be wanting an exhaust....

 

[TB Rich]

Quick update, ITG and battery fitted at Tech 1 and then collected the Arrow rods on the way up to dropping off the car at Engine Dynamics.

Arrow rods....



ITG and Odyssey fitting.....

 

[Raptor6767]

Rich, go for the R3 Maxi or at least V6 Ph2 airbox. They make a difference. I don't like your current intake setup and given in mind the money spent into this project I don't think you'll be getting max power out of the car.

 

[Yiannis197]

Rich, weight difference between the batteries?

 

[TB Rich]

Rich, go for the R3 Maxi or at least V6 Ph2 airbox. They make a difference. I don't like your current intake setup and given in mind the money spent into this project I don't think you'll be getting max power out of the car.

What is there to dislike about the inlet setup exactly? The ITG airbox is good for 300bhp, the JC filter inside I have is good for 290bhp. Most ITG setups use a 90deg bend off the throttle body, vs mine that retains the OE tubing with no aggressive bends. Therefore there are no restictions, so how it could be improved?

The V6 airbox, tell me what exactly would it do better??? The box and filter medium is not any better. The airfeed hole is smaller and non radiused so that is not better. I like yours because you have the scoop, but the scoop wouldn't work on mine because I have a 200 front end.
Also you have moved your battery to the boot and had to relocate fuse boxes and header tanks too. I am not prepared to put the battery in the boot and I can not risk compromising the car so don't want a smaller battery either.



Yannis I haven't weighed a stock battery, what are they though, 15kg+? Odyssey list mine as 9kg.

 

[Raptor6767]

I did dyno testing before and after the airbox and gained bhp. Even before the scoop. Was a massive difference on the road (gained ~3 lengths of a car).



V6 airbox has a 93mm airfeed hole, don't know the radius of the ITG.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2tkt55mxa38oxt/2014-08-22 19.42.09.jpg?dl=0

It has a big panel filter that I'm guessing has more surface (therefore can handle more airflow) than the ITG, and the air doesn't flow in under 90° angle.



You can see the difference in the volume of air that each airbox can receive.

IMHO.

 

[John1006]

How have I only found this, well done Rich. I know we've had chats about NA is the only way hopefully I'll land a new job which can help me get mine on its way. Top stuff

 

[TB Rich]

Sorry Raptor, none of what you posted makes any difference and nor have you any proof it is better vs the ITG. So you gained a few hp vs the stock airbox. I would expect ITG to provide the same gains vs Stock airbox.

The ITG airbox and filter combination is good for 290bhp. So even if the panel filter is bigger (which I doubt), I don't need to exceed 290bhp from the ITG do I.
I do not have a 90deg bend, I already said this, if you are referering to the snorkle/air duct on the ITG box, then this is a venturi designed with CFM analysis - it is pre airfilter not post. It is part of the airbox design and has been certified by ITG for 300bhp. I am using the OEM inlet tube to avoid a 90deg bend post air filter

Again, who cares about the volume of the airbox, if the ITG is good for 300bhp, why do I need more. The design of the venturi into the airbox promotes airflow and speed so static volume like the v6 is not needed to be so large anyway.

One thing you need to consider too, the v6 airbox is suitable for R3 maxi ~230bhp. Yet, for Maxi Evo ~250bhp, they changed it again, so it's not exactly that great is it the v6 airbox setup At least my ITG doesn't require changing for ~290bhp. Pus I keep OEM battery location and connections, and OEM fuse box location and wiring.

 

[TB Rich]

Hi John, you need to get the 402's in now mate, must be cam belt time very soon?

 

[Raptor6767]

Where is that ITG airbox tested for 300bhp? Is it on some turbocharged or N/A car?

R3 Maxi uses the same hose and airbox as the R3/V6 (they use the same panel filter) just the front is different because of the better air intake via the front grill.

How much bhp does Clio V6 Ph2 have? I believe it's 250bhp.

I'm not trying to undermine/disrespect what you're doing I'm just trying to help.

If you think that this setup is good/better than good luck.

P.S. I think I saw somewhere V6 setup with the small battery underneath it.

I could do the same by relocating it behind the airbox but I wanted a normal battery (even got 55Ah instead of 45Ah stock) because I don't think that 4-5kg difference in weight has any influence on the performance.

Fuses are all in the OEM cases and not a single installation has been cut, they have just been relocated underneath the airbox.

 

[Aford197]

I work down the road from ITG and I spoke to the engineer that designs these and he said they tried every which way to get maximum flow and the design they have is proven to be the best option, I know they would say that but ITG have a massive rep and customer base so I doubt they wouldn't under go thorough testing before releasing a product at that cost.

 

[Raptor6767]

TBH, that doesn't meen nothing to me - I saw a lot of respectful companies declaring ridiculous gains for our cars (look just at the figures for a remap or exhausts) that are proven to be wrong.

I'm really not saying that this intake setup is BAD but I think that the car won't make max bhp that it could.

I might be wrong. Just thinking out loud.

It would be interesting to compare filters in those 2 airboxes and see which one has bigger surface.

 

[TB Rich]

This is good mate, I like the debate However before we go too much further.... remember, my bhp will be about 220 - upto 230 at the most! So either ITG or the V6 airbox will both be plenty good enough and you wont see a difference between between them because at my power then neither are restricting.

If I was trying to get 230+ out the engine, then its valid to talk about this because the V6 wouldn't be good enough (hence RS changing it on Evo), the ITG.... well actually it is good enough . It is the same airbox and filter size as used on the EP3 K20 Civic Type R. I have seen 240+ Civics using my airfilter

R3 Maxi uses the same hose and airbox as the R3/V6 (they use the same panel filter) just the front is different because of the better air intake via the front grill.

Exactly, the Maxi NOT the Maxi Evo. So this airbox (maxi/v6) you are claming is better because of the apparent extra volume, is actually completley removed on the R3 Maxi Evo.... they wouldn't do this if it was capable of delivering the power needed for 250bhp on the Clio.
So to recap - the V6 airbox is only used on R3's up to the R3 Maxi (230bhp), it is removed on the R3 Maxi Evo (250bhp), pretty much proof you're at the limit with 230bhp!! I am free to design a new solution so I'm not going to use that v6 airbox. I could argue I dont think it's good enough for my application, therefore who is right? you or me..... well I'll take RenaultSports opinion and NOT use the V6

The Filter might be the same between Maxi and Maxi Evo, thus proving it has enough surface area, but my filter is massive and rated to 290bhp. ITG do lots of sizes, bigger and smaller, no need for them to lie. I am free to choose what size I want and I went BIG!

Also everything except the filter itself was changed going from Maxi to Maxi Evo, the inlet hose is different too:

 

[TB Rich]

I can very easily swap, so if someone can lend me a V6 airbox and hose for the 7th of March I will test them back to back when I am back at my accurate rolling road again to verify the results from the builders when they are done.

 

[TB Rich]

Just requesting the pricing for this in induvidual sections..... I think I can something special with just the front section with the filter, maybe the middle too and cut it up.

This is only €381 for all 3 parts. So just the inlet part isn't going to be too much, is it!!?

 

[Raptor6767]

I think that Maxi EVO has only better air intake because of a direct air flow to the airbox. The filter and the back panel of the airbox are all the same. I don't like the angle of the plastic connecting the airbox to the TB.


And if I remember correctly, Simo switched from V6 to R3 and back.